question about the Rozelle rule

[ChrisBabcock]

I was just talking with my father in law about the history of NFL free agency and the Rozelle rule came up. Many of us know that, in that era, should a team sign a free agent, the teams involved would need to negotiate fair compensation and, if they couldn't, the commissioner would decide for them. My question is this... Should it reach a point in which the commissioner would announce what the compensation would be, would that be done before or after the free agent signed with his new team? In other words, would the player's new team have any advance warning as to what draft picks they would be giving up before they signed the player?
Thanks guys.
Merry Christmas!

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

I believe it was done afterward. I'm not 100% sure of it but I think it was after the player signed.

[Jay Z]

I think the compensation had to be decided on before the player could join his new team. This happened in the Dick Gordon case, where Gordon signed with the Rams in 1972. Gordon couldn't join the Rams until October 12th because Halas disputed the compensation. Halas wanted players, the Rams wanted to give a draft choice. Rozelle ruled in favor of the draft choice.

Most of the free agent moves did not require intervention by Rozelle. Dave Parks was one that did, the Saints didn't like that Rozelle sent their #1 draft choice, Kevin Hardy, to the 49ers. I guess it worked out okay when Hardy wound up being an injured bust.

Cullen Bryant sued when Rozelle attempted to include him as compensation for Ron Jessie. That lawsuit ended this era of free agency.

[Bryan]

Cullen Bryant sued when Rozelle attempted to include him as compensation for Ron Jessie. That lawsuit ended this era of free agency.

Do you know when that lawsuit had a ruling issued? I believe Ron Jaworksi signing with the Eagles was also subject to Rozelle Rules, but they worked out the 'compensation' on their own (Charlie Young went to the Rams).

[7DnBrnc53]

Cullen Bryant sued when Rozelle attempted to include him as compensation for Ron Jessie. That lawsuit ended this era of free agency.

Do you know when that lawsuit had a ruling issued? I believe Ron Jaworksi signing with the Eagles was also subject to Rozelle Rules, but they worked out the 'compensation' on their own (Charlie Young went to the Rams).

That was after the players gave up FA after winning it the year before in the courts, correct (due to the collective bargaining agreement)?

[Jay Z]

Cullen Bryant sued when Rozelle attempted to include him as compensation for Ron Jessie. That lawsuit ended this era of free agency.

Do you know when that lawsuit had a ruling issued? I believe Ron Jaworksi signing with the Eagles was also subject to Rozelle Rules, but they worked out the 'compensation' on their own (Charlie Young went to the Rams).

Jessie/Bryant was 1974-75 off season. For 1975-76 off season it was gone in at least some situations. Riggins going from Jets, to Redskins was uncompensated. As was Jean Fugett and Calvin Hill. The Dolphins did get comp for Csonka, Kiick, and Warfield when they returned to the NFL. So I don't know if that was just a voluntary deal or not.

By 1976-77 the new CBA was in place. My understanding of the Jaworski deal was that the Rams traded the first refusal rights for those of Charle Young.

[Throwin_Samoan]

Do you know when that lawsuit had a ruling issued? I believe Ron Jaworksi signing with the Eagles was also subject to Rozelle Rules, but they worked out the 'compensation' on their own (Charlie Young went to the Rams).

The federal judge in Minneapolis issued the ruling rendering the Rozelle Rule illegal on antitrust grounds on Dec. 30, 1975.

Back on Aug. 1, after Detroit had said they were no longer interested in Bryant, Rozelle gave them the first round pick the Rams had acquired from Green Bay (probably for John Hadl?) and "a draft choice as this office may determine appropriate after the conclusion of the 1975 season."

The NFL had contended that if players could sell their services to the highest bidder, that half their teams would fold. Of course, as has been the case in every league, free agency has increased player salaries exponentially, but has not put anyone out of business.

[Throwin_Samoan]

The Dolphins did get comp for Csonka, Kiick, and Warfield when they returned to the NFL.

When Csonka signed with the Giants on April 7, 1976 (after Joe Robbie scoffed at Csonka's demand for a five year, $2M contract...which, as it turned out, would have been a stretch for what was left in Zonk's tank), it was said that because the Rozelle Rule had been suspended in the ruling three-plus months earlier, they would not get compensation.

Warfield had signed with Cleveland the day before and reports were the same - no compensation would be forthcoming.

Kiick signed with Denver on May 20, 1976 and reports were the same.

[Jay Z]

The Dolphins did get comp for Csonka, Kiick, and Warfield when they returned to the NFL.

When Csonka signed with the Giants on April 7, 1976 (after Joe Robbie scoffed at Csonka's demand for a five year, $2M contract...which, as it turned out, would have been a stretch for what was left in Zonk's tank), it was said that because the Rozelle Rule had been suspended in the ruling three-plus months earlier, they would not get compensation.

Warfield had signed with Cleveland the day before and reports were the same - no compensation would be forthcoming.

Kiick signed with Denver on May 20, 1976 and reports were the same.

Compensation came later. Compensation for Warfield was not announced until January 1978, after Warfield had played his last game for the Browns.

Compensation:
Csonka: 1978 #3 DC, 1979 #3 DC
Warfield: 1978 #4 DC, 1978 #7 DC
Kiick: 1979 #8 DC

[Throwin_Samoan]

Good to know, thanks.

Seems the new CBA in 1978 established compensation going forward, but left previous disputes up to the individual owners. And Art Modell (in a rare case of keeping his word) had promised to compensate Miami for Warfield.