Centers

[JohnTurney]

like the QBs not in HOF, for me anyway, too hard to separate, no one really above the others

Other than Kelce---centers are also tight..this, of course, just the things
that can be counted...no "what they said" or other intangibles, not the complete cases...

One Broncos fan is pushing hard for Nalen with the zone-blocking intangible--
I updated chart, I added a couple of things...Bednarik I think of more as a LBer but...
plenty of time at C late in career...but both all long...he's hard to group.

Looks like tight grouping of non-HOFers after Kelce--

2023-08-06_1-34-27.jpg (113.47 KiB) Viewed 3018 times

[Brian wolf]

As everyone knows, interior positions on both sides of the ball never get enough respect and it will be interesting to see if any of these centers like Nalen, Hull, Hilgenberg, Kreutz will get elected to the HOF?
Nalen had unbelievable competition in Dawson, Kreutz, Mawae* and Saturday, which might be stalling his election while Kelce will have a better chance at election due to a famous brother who could be a first-ballot pick, though he is justified on his own merits.

*Edited

Would the election of McMichael hurt Hilgenberg's chances? Merit or not, a lot of Bears elections could produce future fatigue as well ...

[pgconboy]

Centers definitely are a tricky one. They are on of the most under represented positions in the HOF and there is a bit of a growing sentiment towards their general importance.

For the up and coming potential HOF'rs there's probably enough data that you could add penalties per 16 as an extra but fair data point. I looked into it on some other centers and there seems to be 3 groups, Mr Cleans, Mr Average, and the penalty problem centers.

[JohnTurney]

For the up and coming potential HOF'rs there's probably enough data that you could add penalties per 16 as an extra but fair data point. I looked into it on some other centers and there seems to be 3 groups, Mr Cleans, Mr Average, and the penalty problem centers.

most people don't care about stuff like that. Wish they did a little more. Voters couldn't have cared less about that info for the tackles of the era
as a way to separate...

information that is out of the mainstream goes like this

1. If it is helpful for their guy it's, "My guy is not a holder, didn't hurt his team"
2. If it is not, it's, "You're nitpicking"

Same with PSI stuff or other hard-to-come-by stats, if it's helpful they like it but if it is not it's ignored. KM
was not terrific on PEN or PSI but no problem for him ...

[JeffreyMiller]

Admittedly a homer, but Kent Hull was an outstanding center for a decade with the Bills. In addition to his postseason laurels, he played in four Super Bowls. As a small hall guy, I am not suggesting he belongs in the HOF, but I think he is worthy of being discussed when the topic comes up. Definitely a solid HOVG.

[JohnTurney]

Admittedly a homer, but Kent Hull was an outstanding center for a decade with the Bills. In addition to his postseason laurels, he played in four Super Bowls. As a small hall guy, I am not suggesting he belongs in the HOF, but I think he is worthy of being discussed when the topic comes up. Definitely a solid HOVG.

And IMO, gets some credit for being All-USFL ... which adds a little to his accolades...

[Gary Najman]

I nominated Hull this year for the HOVG. In the past I also nominated Len Hauss and Jeff Van Note. I believe the three are HOVG worthy.

[JohnTurney]

Len Hauss

Hauss is interesting name---one that is good example of
postseason honors beagin spread but because all thumbnails
don't tell the story---

the 2- time All-Pro, 5-time pro bowler===narative, suggests 5 good seasons two great ones
assumes the "all-pro" assumes no difference between first and second-team All-pro

But ignores things like All-conference...they seem largely forgotten
people don't always scroll down and see the full price on PFR

1964
1965
1966--Pro Bowl
1967
1968--Pro Bowl
1969--Second-team All-Pro (PFW), Pro Bowl
1970--Pro Bowl
1971--First-team All-Conference
1972--First-team All-Pro (NEA), Pro Bowl, Second-team All-Conference; Also second-team ALl-Pro (PFWA)
1973--Second-team All-Pro, Second-team All-Conference
1974--Second-team All-Pro, First-team All-Conference
1975--Second-team All-Pro, First-team All-Conference
1976--Second-team All-Conference
1977--Second-team All-Conference

So, assuming postseason honors represent a good year he was at least something in 11 of 14 years, not five

My personal levels are:

consensus All-Pro
First-team All-pro
-------------------------AFL or First level
Second-team All-Pro
Pro Bowl
All-Conference
--------------------------ASL or second level
Second-team All-Conference, Pro Bowl first-alternate, All-Pro HM
-------------------------ATL or third level

Starters (I have two groups of starters---but another time)
-----------------------
Backups and so on...

ADL - above the first line (my blue, stolen from PSI, I also have numerical for the each level...)
ASL - above the second line (my red)
ATL - above the third line (my purple)

Since his 2nd team (AP) All-pros and Pro Bowls came in separate years, unless you look at chart
you may not know it's 7 different seasons, and if you read some sites or stories https://www.notinhalloffame.com/footbal ... -len-hauss
and https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-f ... 34b5f66cde
it's hard to get full picture...

I see him as almost 80% ATL which is high but 7% AFL which is low...(comparatively)

Others have their ways but this is how I quantify postseason honors...stats...quantify themselves, as to rings...to me that covers a few of the so-called "boxes"

[Bryan]

I was on the fence about Dawson and Mawae in terms of the HOF...I never thought of them as being "great", more like "consistently good". I think with the exception of Wojciechowicz, the HOF did a nice job of getting all the "upper room" centers in Canton.

I think Kelce is a great player and deserving of the HOF. I think cases can be made for Hilgenberg, Hull & Nalen. But guys like Pouncey, Kreutz, Saturday, Mangold....I watched all of them play and never thought that I was watching a HOFer.

[sluggermatt15]

I was on the fence about Dawson and Mawae in terms of the HOF...I never thought of them as being "great", more like "consistently good". I think with the exception of Wojciechowicz, the HOF did a nice job of getting all the "upper room" centers in Canton.

I think Kelce is a great player and deserving of the HOF. I think cases can be made for Hilgenberg, Hull & Nalen. But guys like Pouncey, Kreutz, Saturday, Mangold....I watched all of them play and never thought that I was watching a HOFer.

I agree on your points. Kelce should be in the HOF. Hilgenberg is in the HOVG, Hull is not, and Nalen is not yet eligible. I could see all three in.

I'm a born and raised Steelers fan and watched all of Pouncey's career. He was pretty good, solid, reliable, but HOVG in my eyes.