2023 Hall of Very Good Finalists

[TanksAndSpartans]

Its the Steelers though guys, the last team to leave the single-wing, which had to have helped Nickels' blocking ability. As soon as the Steelers went to the T, his numbers jumped. Had Nickel played longer into the Bobby Layne years, might have made the Hall but we dont know because he was hurt in 1957.

+1 on this. I'd have to think he was a good blocker too given the system they were running for much of his career, but I don't have evidence. Like Brian says, his numbers do go up when they get Finks throwing to him. Did they switch to the T in '52?

[TanksAndSpartans]

I still want to know what about him or any other 1950s end is more or less "tight" than the rest.

Nothing. I think this is an incorrect argument. Maybe blame the Steelers. I think they put him in their ring of honor as a tight end. The author of the "The Golden Age of Pro Football" actually argued Fears was the first in the TE role having to make the tough catches - move the chains type plays while others went long, but I discussed with @John Turney about this and he said the film didn't back it up.

Nickel pops off the page by far the least of that group

The group I named is a pretty good group, a couple of HOF snubs in there, but Nickel holds his own. Watch the old Tel Ra videos - if he still doesn't pop for you, that's fair. He stood out for me, but he doesn't have the stats or the honors - I get it. He isn't going to the HOF. Similar to Eddie Price. He doesn't have the resume either, it seems too bad though because he looks like as good of a player as some who do have the resume.

I'd rather take Nickel than more '80s WRs like Stanley Morgan who sailed into the HOVG on the first try because it seemed to me a lot of teams had a receiver like him in the '80s - Jets with Walker, Dolphins with the Marks brothers, etc. Morgan had one big year, but that wasn't really typical of what I recall. I never remember thinking for a Dolphins/Pats game that Morgan would be the deciding factor. I'd rather put some of the really good '80s RBs in first.

[Brian wolf]

The Steelers switched in 1953, during his seventh season.

[TanksAndSpartans]

The Steelers switched in 1953, during his seventh season.

Thanks!

[JameisBrownston]

I'd rather take Nickel than more '80s WRs like Stanley Morgan who sailed into the HOVG on the first try because it seemed to me a lot of teams had a receiver like him in the '80s - Jets with Walker, Dolphins with the Marks brothers, etc. Morgan had one big year, but that wasn't really typical of what I recall. I never remember thinking for a Dolphins/Pats game that Morgan would be the deciding factor. I'd rather put some of the really good '80s RBs in first.

I agree, Stanley Morgan sticks out to me largely as a compiler. Even in his boom year, he somehow did not score any black ink or an AP; Jerry Rice is just merciless. There are several other contemporary receivers I'd prefer, including the Marks Bros, Roy Green, Wes Chandler (damn son, that strike year tho), possibly Mike Quick and John Jefferson. Clayton in particular seems like an outside HOF candidate.

[sluggermatt15]

Elbie Nickel is deserving too and could be considered the first great receiving tight end, though others believe it was Tom Fears who made the Hall...

What makes them different from any other end from the 50s? The general consensus seems to be that the 60s starting with Ditka and Mackey is the event horizon for when tight and split ends can be distinguished.

For a modern player, Darryl Turner was a short career, TD scorer like AAFC star, Alyn Beals.

Yeah, that's a weird career, especially as it continued even into his low-volume years. Usually you only see that pure vulture archetype in RBs and Taysom Hill.

If we are to recognize the history of football outside the exclusivity of the NFL (and many here might think that's a good thing) then Beals is worthy of consideration.

Ha, as a longtime Spec Sanders and Hennigan/Powell truther, I'd certainly never be one to assert NFL privilege! Got me there.

Tell me more about Peggy Parratt, looks like someone who was probably good but I for one haven't a clue how good. Do we have any other players of his vintage in the HOVG yet?

Al Nesser.

[JameisBrownston]

I'm weighing my options for this class, which doesn't overly excite me on the whole. I think I have about 5 of my votes determined, but I know basically nothing of Parratt; if he's a guy Tanks has mentioned before, I don't recall ever discussing him between us over the years, as we have, say, Norb Sacksteder and Jack McBride. Given the time period, I'm assuming he was a running back. What is known about him and his performance? Enough to say whether he's HOVG quality either way?

[JuggernautJ]

....Tell me more about Peggy Parratt, looks like someone who was probably good but I for one haven't a clue how good. Do we have any other players of his vintage in the HOVG yet?

I'm weighing my options for this class, which doesn't overly excite me on the whole. I think I have about 5 of my votes determined, but I know basically nothing of Parratt... Given the time period, I'm assuming he was a running back. What is known about him and his performance? Enough to say whether he's HOVG quality either way?

Parratt was a Player (Back), Coach and Owner in the Ohio League (pre-NFL) and won championships with the Shelby Blues (tied 1908, won 1910 and 1911) and Parratt's (Akron) Indians (1913).
He was a player, head coach and owner for all those championship teams.
Historically, he was most likely the receiver of the first forward pass in Professional Football (1906).
He later served on two NFL Commissions in the early days of the league.

An article about Peggy from the Coffin Corner, Volume 1 Issue 6 by Milt Roberts:
http://www.profootballresearchers.org/c ... 06-008.pdf

From Ken Crippen's Football Learning Academy Hall of Honor biography:
https://www.football-learning-academy.c ... gy-parratt

From a 2020 thread here:
https://www.profootballresearchers.com/ ... php?t=5762

[JameisBrownston]

Is he on the ballot as a player or a coach? If the latter, seems obviously worthy with all the titles (the most in the league?). If the former...

Peggy was signed by the Massillon Tigers, in part because of his acknowledged mastery of the newest offensive weapon in football, the forward pass. He immediately earned the starting role at quarterback.

.

Was he kind of a prototype Benny Friedman? I definitely want to know more about that.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Parratt actually hasn't gotten my vote yet and may not this year. Admittedly, as I work my way from 1890 to 1920, I'm only on 1906 so it's possible Parratt wows me later. My feeling from my superficial research on his contemporaries is that Homer Davidson is the player who stands out, but I'll update the board when I make it all the way through. As a contributor, I think there's enough publicly posted, even just Wikipedia to give him a vote, but so far I've been voting for players and leaving coaches and contributors to others to decide.