1986- The fall of 3 football empires

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fgoodwin
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by fgoodwin »

SixtiesFan wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
Whose 1986 fall from grace was the most surprising?
[snip]

Also, poor draft day decisions in Big D were catching up to them (like Rod Hill in 82 and Kevin Brooks in 85). Landry should have resigned after the 86 season like he originally planned on doing (and letting Paul Hackett be the HC).
The indignation at Tom Landry's firing after three losing seasons culminated by a 3-13 record in 1988 was somewhat strange, if not bizarre.
Agreed. Every time I hear a 90s (or later) Cowboy fan bitch about how Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry, I ask them how Jerry should've done it differently? In thirty-four years, not a single one has come back with a decent answer. "Well, I would've done it differently" is usually the best they can do.

Some fault Jerry for firing Landry over the radio or TV rather than face-to-face. Until I remind them that face-to-face is EXACTLY what Jones did by flying to Austin to meet Landry on the golf course. The Friday-night-massacre press conference at Vally Ranch happened AFTER Jerry got back from firing Landry in Austin.

Some say Jerry should've offered Landry another season then ease him out the door -- until I show them the quotes where Landry himself said he would not have taken a "caretaker" position as a coach or in the front office, looking over Jimmy's shoulder.

The fact is, Jerry did just about everything right. Even though he says he could've handled it better, I don't see what he could've done differently. Bum Bright himself offered to fire Landry but to his credit, Jerry said no, that was his (Jerry's) job.

Fans today (or at least those since Jerry bought the team) have no idea how badly Cowboy Nation wanted Landry gone in the late 80s. That's all you heard on talk radio in Dallas. It was even a cover story in Sports Illustrated. But try to find one of those fans today? They all swear by St. Landry and NONE of them will admit they wanted him fired.

I think the real reason so many fans hate Jerry is to absolve their guilt when in fact they were one among MANY who wanted Landry gone.
Brian wolf
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by Brian wolf »

Great points by everyone but I still feel had Danny White not broken his wrist against the Giants in 1986--they injured Fouts for the Chargers as well--the Cowboys would have made the playoffs. Maybe Landry retires after a playoff exit or stays anyway but the east was still a tough division.

That Allen fumble against Philly changed his career. Al Davis would never forgive him but without a QB, this team wasnt going anywhere. Plunkett was done.

The Dolphins should have kept winning but Olivadatti didnt have it as a defensive coach. Shula made a mistake in not building an offensive line to run the ball better. Sammie Smith faded quickly. Pass protector or not, had Shula unleashed Webb more as a run blocker, he might already be in the HOF but he will get in soon enough.
sheajets
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by sheajets »

Few of my friends from my fantasy football league (going back decades) are Cowboy fans that go way way back. I asked them the other day about their thoughts/feelings regarding Landry particularly as we got deeper into the 80s...was told after 20-0 to the Rams they thought by then a majority of Cowboy fans thought it was time for him to go. Perhaps 60-70%. Was wondering if that indeed was the pulse of Cowboys Nation at the time, though all of them talked (even now) about how painful/uncomfortable a conversation that was. How do you get rid of a Landry if you're the Cowboys. Unless he up and quits there was no easy way to do it

Somewhere I remember hearing Marty Schottenheimer was being considered as a potential replacement for Landry
Brian wolf
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by Brian wolf »

Youre right sheajets ... at that time, even I knew it was getting time but I still hoped Danny White could recover from that injury and continue to lead the team which he tried to do in 1987 but his career was winding down as well. Tex Schramm just couldnt let Landry go and Bum Bright the owner, must have felt like Jerry Jones offer was too good to pass up. A very difficult situation just like Don Shula in 1996. Johnson was part of both but couldnt get it done in Miami, which is one reason I feel Shula clung to the tradition of celebrating teams not going undefeated. It was his way of holding on to his former team though he profitted from having former ownership into the Dolphins.

If superstar QBs were smart today, they should try to tie into team ownership or equity but the owners for now are squelching that opportunity.
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74_75_78_79_
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by 74_75_78_79_ »

Even as the Raiders rallied from 0-3 to 8-4, I remember not being too impressed. Many close wins along the way. Marcus got too much gruff for that Eagles loss. Yes, he did fumble, but two plays prior - 3rd & 20 from Phi's 47 - he caught a 26-yard pass from Plunkett; and then ran for five on the next play to put Raiders further into FG-range. Now why didn't they simply kick it right there and then if not the play before already?

Their loss to the Eagles and then at Seattle, 37-0, the following week reminds me a bit of the '79 Saints' back-to-back games as the season wound down. First losing a heartbreaker to...the Raiders themselves, and then getting blasted by SD a week later, 35-0! Only difference was that whereas '79 NO were now out of it after that, the Raiders were still in control of their own destiny with two weeks to go at 8-6! Home vs KC who were also 8-6, and then home vs Indy who by that very finale were coming off their first two wins of the year under newly-aquired Ron Meyer. They'd lose both games thus officially ending their 'Era of Excellence'.

Three of the, arguably, four best Dolphin seasons under Marino were his first three before they'd hit that wall in '86. 1990 would have to be the other great one though they did make the AFCCG two years later. Very disappointing if you're a Dolphin-fan during Dan's time there. And that four-year drought to end the '80s has to be the first thing to think of.

The Steelers could actually be in this very conversation with these other three. But they decided to join the fall-from-grace 'party' one year earlier in Noll's first losing season since '71. But to see all four of those '70s powerhouses miss the playoffs in '86, '87, and '88 had to serve as the three final nails in the '70s coffin.
fgoodwin wrote:Every time I hear a 90s (or later) Cowboy fan bitch about how Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry, I ask them how Jerry should've done it differently? In thirty-four years, not a single one has come back with a decent answer. "Well, I would've done it differently" is usually the best they can do.

Some fault Jerry for firing Landry over the radio or TV rather than face-to-face. Until I remind them that face-to-face is EXACTLY what Jones did by flying to Austin to meet Landry on the golf course. The Friday-night-massacre press conference at Vally Ranch happened AFTER Jerry got back from firing Landry in Austin.

Some say Jerry should've offered Landry another season then ease him out the door -- until I show them the quotes where Landry himself said he would not have taken a "caretaker" position as a coach or in the front office, looking over Jimmy's shoulder.

The fact is, Jerry did just about everything right. Even though he says he could've handled it better, I don't see what he could've done differently. Bum Bright himself offered to fire Landry but to his credit, Jerry said no, that was his (Jerry's) job.

Fans today (or at least those since Jerry bought the team) have no idea how badly Cowboy Nation wanted Landry gone in the late 80s. That's all you heard on talk radio in Dallas. It was even a cover story in Sports Illustrated. But try to find one of those fans today? They all swear by St. Landry and NONE of them will admit they wanted him fired.

I think the real reason so many fans hate Jerry is to absolve their guilt when in fact they were one among MANY who wanted Landry gone.
Agree with just about all of that as sad the subject is. However, I would have simply asked Tom to come to headquarters at his soonest convenience and meet me alone in my office to give him the news, Not fly to Austin, intruding on a family golf outing, yet alone doing the deed in front of his son. This, sure-enough, is where Jerry's regret and guilt (grading himself an 'F') mostly comes from. And to those in Big D who were all onboard with the idea the years leading up who, now that it was done, suddenly resented the change - that may have been the main reason for such resentment.

But, otherwise, there really wasn't any better way for Jerry to go about this difficult and unenviable task. And, yes, willing to do it himself was better than letting Bum do it instead.

Also as mentioned, Jerry did suggest that he should have maybe given him one more year. But what would that have done? It would have delayed things to get started for a year and likely butterfly away some - or maybe plenty - of what would develop within the next five years.

It also would have given Jimmy opportunity for more offers as he further strengthens his stock at the 'U' with what likely would be another National Championship (which Dennis Erickson, of course, actually did accomplish in '89).

And when if Landry bounces back with a respectable 7-9 or 8-8 campaign in 'Year One' under Jerry; or a 'strong' 6-10? Much more difficult it would have been to make the change than simply a year prior upon buying the franchise coming off 3-13. "After just one year? And an improvement, nonetheless? Why didn't he just fire him last year then? What was the point?" would have been the consensus in Big D.

So, sadly, doing so right off the bat was what had to happen. Just should have been done in the privacy of Jerry's office.

And if I were Tex Schramm, it would hve been quite difficult - after my long history with TL - for me to stay with Jerry for one second longer upon knowing officially of the change. Hand in my resignation after getting back with Jerry from the golf course at the latest.
conace21
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by conace21 »

fgoodwin wrote: Agreed. Every time I hear a 90s (or later) Cowboy fan bitch about how Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry, I ask them how Jerry should've done it differently? In thirty-four years, not a single one has come back with a decent answer. "Well, I would've done it differently" is usually the best they can do.

Some fault Jerry for firing Landry over the radio or TV rather than face-to-face. Until I remind them that face-to-face is EXACTLY what Jones did by flying to Austin to meet Landry on the golf course. The Friday-night-massacre press conference at Vally Ranch happened AFTER Jerry got back from firing Landry in Austin.

Some say Jerry should've offered Landry another season then ease him out the door -- until I show them the quotes where Landry himself said he would not have taken a "caretaker" position as a coach or in the front office, looking over Jimmy's shoulder.

The fact is, Jerry did just about everything right. Even though he says he could've handled it better, I don't see what he could've done differently. Bum Bright himself offered to fire Landry but to his credit, Jerry said no, that was his (Jerry's) job.

Fans today (or at least those since Jerry bought the team) have no idea how badly Cowboy Nation wanted Landry gone in the late 80s. That's all you heard on talk radio in Dallas. It was even a cover story in Sports Illustrated. But try to find one of those fans today? They all swear by St. Landry and NONE of them will admit they wanted him fired.

I think the real reason so many fans hate Jerry is to absolve their guilt when in fact they were one among MANY who wanted Landry gone.
Jerry did several things wrong, but these were borne more out of inexperience in this new world than out of malice or incompetence. (And Bum Bright definitely deserved some blame. Bum deliberately kept Schramm in the dark regarding the sale of the Cowboys, and he preferred that Landry be fired.)

1. Landry found out that his days as coach were numbered by reading the Saturday morning paper. Jones and Bright had all but finalized the deal on Friday. Jimmy Johnson had come to Dallas to assure a minority owner that he would leave Miami to become the Dallas coach. Their presence in Dallas was supposed to be a secret, but Jones decided he was sick of being cooped up at their hotel room Friday night. The JJ's and their wives went to a Tex-Mex place called Mia's. Jones had told his wife that there wouldn't be anyone there,, and they could just slide in and out. Instead, the place was packed. A Dallas sportswriter happened to see them (after spending the day in the hotel lobby looking for them.) He snuck out and got a photographer down to the restaurant. Jimmy protested, but Jerry gave him the go-ahead to shoot their picture. It was all over the Dallas papers on Saturday. That's how the world -and Landry- learned that Jerry Jones was about to buy the Cowboys - and he was bringing Jimmy Johnson.

2- Tex Schramm met the group Saturday morning and said "You people need to get out of town. You've embarrassed Tom Landry enough!" Jones probably should have let Schramm formally fire Landry, but he insisted that he should look Landry in the eyes and do the unpleasant task himself. I respect that.

3- The Saturday Night Massacre press conference. Jones blew off advice from the Cowboys PR staff and opened with a rambling 7 minute speech that didn't mention Landry once. He used the phrase, "It feels like Christmas morning." Jerry was genuinely excited to be owning the Dallas Cowboys, and was reacting in that manner. He didn't realize that the sale of the team was considered 2nd page news; Landry's firing was the big story. And here was this oil man from Arkansas waltzing into Dallas and firing a legend.... with a big grin on his face.

4- The way it worked out, Landry was fired before the sale has officially closed, let alone been ratified by the other owners.
SixtiesFan
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by SixtiesFan »

Landry had three straight losing seasons, with the last being 3-13. Why would anyone be surprised a coach with that record would lose his job? If Landry was the Great Man he was purported to be, why didn't he have the grace to step down?

As others have pointed out, Cowboys fans were demanding Landry be replaced.
lastcat3
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Re: 1986- The fall of 3 football empires

Post by lastcat3 »

Yeah it probably wasn't handled in the best of ways but Landry definitely needed to be gone at the end of the '88 season. If Landry is coaching the '89 season the team likely wins five or six games (as Jimmy in many ways sabotaged the '89 season in order to get better for the future) and they don't get all those draft picks as they definitely don't trade away Walker. They don't end up with Smith in the '90 draft and they don't get the defensive talent that they got while Jimmy was head coach. To be honest I think if Landry stays on for the '89 season the 49ers are viewed as having a Patriots type of run and likely get to the Super Bowl in '92, 93, and 94. And who knows maybe if they continue to have that kind of success players start choosing to come play for them because they want to win and they end up getting another Super Bowl in the late '90's.

If Landry stays on for the '89 season I'm not sure Dallas gets to any Super Bowls during the decade of the '90's. The '89 season was extremely pivotal to the formation of that dynasty and if Landry is still there in '89 a lot of those moves don't happen. And Jerry also likely isn't in the Hall of Fame if he doesn't get those '90's championships.
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