Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Ditka over Mackey. Better stats. Yes, Ditka's Philly and Dallas time was nothing special, but Mackey only had 8 years as a starter. Ditka had 2 AP all pros but should have had four. AP didn't pick a TE All Pro in 1961, they picked three backs, Brown, Lenny Moore, Hornung. Then they picked Ron Kramer in 1962 which was a bad pick over Ditka.

Ditka had quickness I never saw out of Mackey.

@Brian, enjoyed the analysis on Newsome and Sanders. I've got 3 more for you: Ben Coates, Keith Jackson, and Todd Christensen. Any of them in top 15 territory for you?

I get the pushback for large WR nestling themselves into the TE role and knocking off more complete players. Acknowledging it, oh well. I don't feel too strongly about the list or order.

1. Gronk
2. Gonzalez
3. Kelce
4. Mackey
5. Winslow
6. Casper
7. Sharpe
8. Ditka
9. Gates
10. Newsome
HM Jackie Smith and Witten

Gronkowski
Kelce
Gonzales
Winslow
Mackey
Ditka
Bavaro
J Smith
Newsome
Coates

Watching Charlie Sanders, he reminded me of a huge receiver like Jackie Smith who could also block but didnt have the consistent runners or QB to help him get more attention. Landry had talent but couldnt put it all together ...

Was excited when Crumpler went to the Titans but injuries stopped his career like Delanie Walker.

The big question is ... will huge wide receivers like Vernon Davis or Jimmy Graham make the HOF?

Top-10 in whatever order you'd like:

Gronk (best modern)
Ditka (best old school)
Bavaro (my favorite)
Casper
Gates
Gonzalez
Kelce
Mackey
Sharpe
Winslow

Underrated mention: Fleming. Think it's a rare case where team success ('rings') almost hurts him. Doubt most would put him in their top-50 TEs but I'd have him closer to Top-10 than Top-50. Top-5 blocking TE, to date, contributed to passing game and the team success he contributed to was an all-time great blocking TE on all-time great rushing attacks, the commonality on two different franchise's championship runs and added receiving to those all-time great teams.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:@Brian, enjoyed the analysis on Newsome and Sanders. I've got 3 more for you: Ben Coates, Keith Jackson, and Todd Christensen. Any of them in top 15 territory for you?

Maybe Christensen. He's another guy that Dr. Z loved and would always argue for the HOF. He had great hands and was a clutch player, but his career is just too weird/short for me to put him in the HOF. But I respect a guy who can lead the NFL in receiving multiple times with Plunkett and Wilson as his QBs. Quite the feat.

I never really thought much of Coates. Bledsoe and the Patriots threw the ball a ton for some reason, and Coates caught his share of passes. He was 2nd team all-decade for the 90's, but that is more an indicator of the lack of good TEs in that decade.

Here is what I've said about Keith Jackson: He was regarded as one of the best TEs in college history at Oklahoma. He averaged something like 25 yards per catch over his college career with numerous TDs and was a big play guy, He was really hyped coming into the NFL. Yes, he made All Pro his first few years at Philly, but there wasn't big play potential. The Eagles offensive scheme was garbage, consisting of Cunningham running 10 yards or throwing 10 yards to Jackson & Byars. He might have gotten so beat up in Philly that the rest of his career was affected.

I always viewed Jackson as more 'crafty' than 'dominant'. He was smart and was reliable. His All Pros were due in part to a dearth of good TEs in that era. I remember him not doing anything his first year in GB, but then they paired him with Chumra in two TE sets in 96 and Jackson really excelled. Maybe I am selling Jackson short, but I don't think of him as HOF material...perhaps HOVG.

There are just a lot of TEs who played 10 years and had 5000 yards and 40 TDs. I'd put guys like Russ Francis and Riley Odoms and Dallas Clark over Keith Jackson....but its kind of splitting hairs at some point.

I was surprised for a long time why Jerry Smith had the all-time TD catches by a TE until Shannon Sharpe surpassed him in 2003, and that Casper, Newsome, Winslow or Christensen couldn't get even close to that mark.

I would like also your opinion on Riley Odoms and Rich Caster/Jerome Barkum (I believe that they switched from WR to TE with the Jets).

Ken Houston told me that Rich Caster was one of the best TEs he played against. He also listed Raymond Chester and Alvin Reed as two excellent tight ends.

Everybody I've spoken to has very high regard for Caster - teammates and opponents. What's neat about him is that he could also play receiver - so, he was a good blocker at both tight end and receiver in addition to his receiving skills.

Teo wrote:I was surprised for a long time why Jerry Smith had the all-time TD catches by a TE until Shannon Sharpe surpassed him in 2003, and that Casper, Newsome, Winslow or Christensen couldn't get even close to that mark.

I would like also your opinion on Riley Odoms and Rich Caster/Jerome Barkum (I believe that they switched from WR to TE with the Jets).

Don't really have anything on Barkum. Caster had some productive seasons with Joe Namath, then kind of got stuck in some bad offenses the latter half of his career. I remember he was always mentioned as the player that could 'beat the Cover 2' because he was a TE that could go deep. He must have been a good blocker as mentioned, because late in his career he started as a WR for the 1979 Oilers after his speed had left him.

Odoms was a weird player. He was kind of like Antonio Gates in his athleticism, but without the soft hands. He seemed to be a matchup problem for most safeties. His least productive year was the 1977 Super Bowl season, so maybe that is one of the reasons Riley is not remembered all that much. He was very consistent and durable. I did not know this, but he had a really big senior year at U of Houston (along with Robert Newhouse) and was the 5th overall pick in the 1972 draft. Not too shabby, although that draft was pretty much garbage.