Your Top 10 TEs of all-time

[JohnTurney]

I heard that Rosenbloom said something about not wanting a N-Word (Shack Harris) or a Polack (Ron Jaworski) starting for his football team.

I find that impossible to believe. Just outside the realm of possibility. Carroll Rosenbloom was Jewish and has experience prejudice and was part of breaking down racial barriers
in Baltimore in the 50s and 60s - a town that had still big-time racist attitudes, very much part of the old South...tried to help players live in better neighborhoods, things like that.

he was big-time friends with Kennedys, campaigned for JFK and RFK-who ran on civil rights platform

His GM was Don Klosterman who was a scout and was a huge part of the AFL signing Black players like Earl Faison and Ernie Ladd and Bobby Bell, getting
them to the AFL but also supporting the scouts going to HBCUs and bring in those players, though he didn't do that scouting himself, Wells did that for the Chiefs
but Klosterman did the signings.

Klosterman signed Harris who was actually out of football when Rams brought him in in 1973, drafted Jaws. If he said something or thought those things
he would not have allowed those signings.

Was he perfect? Could he have used that type of language? Sure, many people did, so of course, that is possible, even so-called enlightened people did.
But in terms of "his team" - and now allowing that?

No buying it.

He just meddled in who would start. And meddled with other things. He was still an authoritarian, what he says, goes. He was a rich man who made
his money by running businesses that way, I am sure. He also had enemies--ties to mob, gambling and so on...

But he took pride in Harris being a Black QB for his team...had Shack not thrown a pick in 1974 playoffs and Rams somehow could have
managed to beat Vikings and/or Cowboys in 74 or 75 -and had he stayed healthy in 76 . . .he'd have stayed a long time, IMO been
a hero to Rosenbloom.

That's my take

[Jay Z]

I heard that Rosenbloom said something about not wanting a N-Word (Shack Harris) or a Polack (Ron Jaworski) starting for his football team.

I find that impossible to believe. Just outside the realm of possibility. Carroll Rosenbloom was Jewish and has experience prejudice and was part of breaking down racial barriers
in Baltimore in the 50s and 60s - a town that had still big-time racist attitudes, very much part of the old South...tried to help players live in better neighborhoods, things like that.

he was big-time friends with Kennedys, campaigned for JFK and RFK-who ran on civil rights platform

His GM was Don Klosterman who was a scout and was a huge part of the AFL signing Black players like Earl Faison and Ernie Ladd and Bobby Bell, getting
them to the AFL but also supporting the scouts going to HBCUs and bring in those players, though he didn't do that scouting himself, Wells did that for the Chiefs
but Klosterman did the signings.

Klosterman signed Harris who was actually out of football when Rams brought him in in 1973, drafted Jaws. If he said something or thought those things
he would not have allowed those signings.

Was he perfect? Could he have used that type of language? Sure, many people did, so of course, that is possible, even so-called enlightened people did.
But in terms of "his team" - and now allowing that?

No buying it.

He just meddled in who would start. And meddled with other things. He was still an authoritarian, what he says, goes. He was a rich man who made
his money by running businesses that way, I am sure. He also had enemies--ties to mob, gambling and so on...

But he took pride in Harris being a Black QB for his team...had Shack not thrown a pick in 1974 playoffs and Rams somehow could have
managed to beat Vikings and/or Cowboys in 74 or 75 -and had he stayed healthy in 76 . . .he'd have stayed a long time, IMO been
a hero to Rosenbloom.

That's my take

Plus Harris was brought in off the street. I think it was astounding that Harris wound up starting a NFC championship game in 1974 given his background. Personally I think Harris had some talent but wasn't any more of an answer long term than anyone else they tried in that circus. Probably would have done as well keeping Gabriel and having Jaworski learn the ropes, though neither of those guys did that well in the playoffs either. Some people really seem enamored with Haden. I am not one of them. Ferragamo was the only one who played well enough in the playoffs for that team.

[Brian wolf]

Its a question for John or any other writer with thorough knowledge of the 1970s Rams ...

Did Rosenblooms meddling, or criticisms of Rams QBs losing in the playoffs, affect Knox's decisions on who might be starting? Knox couldnt win with Hadl, Harris, Haden, Jaworski, Namath, or Warren Beatty ... Does Carroll deserve some of the blame for Knox not making the HOF, or is it simply these QBs just not making enough passing plays-- Ferguson and Krieg as well--in the postseason to get a predominant, running team-defense into the SB?

[Brian wolf]

Getting back to tight ends or at least huge receivers listed as tight ends ...
Kelce and Goedert will have big games in this SB. Whichever defense does the best job on these guys wins the game.

[JohnTurney]

Plus Harris was brought in off the street. I think it was astounding that Harris wound up starting a NFC championship game in 1974 given his background. Personally I think Harris had some talent but wasn't any more of an answer long term than anyone else they tried in that circus. Probably would have done as well keeping Gabriel and having Jaworski learn the ropes, though neither of those guys did that well in the playoffs either. Some people really seem enamored with Haden. I am not one of them. Ferragamo was the only one who played well enough in the playoffs for that team.

Harris had a slow release, that was one problem that was on him

One problem not on him was the offense did not allow him to change plays at LOS. He was smart and could see things and couldn't check out of play. Knox wanted the run the play called. In the 1970s Rams were behind the times offensively. In several ways and it cost them big-time.

[JohnTurney]

Its a question for John or any other writer with thorough knowledge of the 1970s Rams ...

Did Rosenblooms meddling, or criticisms of Rams QBs losing in the playoffs, affect Knox's decisions on who might be starting? Knox couldnt win with Hadl, Harris, Haden, Jaworski, Namath, or Warren Beatty ... Does Carroll deserve some of the blame for Knox not making the HOF, or is it simply these QBs just not making enough passing plays-- Ferguson and Krieg as well--in the postseason to get a predominant, running team-defense into the SB?

Rosenbloom dictated who started to a large degree in 1977, and foisted Namath on him in 1977. Later, hard to say---like Schotty never got over the hump like Raiders, - but AFC wa not dominant in 80s --- for whatever reason like they were in the 1970s. Knox on wrong side of both decades

[Jay Z]

Its a question for John or any other writer with thorough knowledge of the 1970s Rams ...

Did Rosenblooms meddling, or criticisms of Rams QBs losing in the playoffs, affect Knox's decisions on who might be starting? Knox couldnt win with Hadl, Harris, Haden, Jaworski, Namath, or Warren Beatty ... Does Carroll deserve some of the blame for Knox not making the HOF, or is it simply these QBs just not making enough passing plays-- Ferguson and Krieg as well--in the postseason to get a predominant, running team-defense into the SB?

Knox's Rams in the playoffs were known for poor QB play and slow starts. They never led in any of their losses. Only 1975 against the Cardinals did they get off to a quick start.

These tendencies didn't follow Knox to his other teams, which didn't have QB controversies and were able to get off to quick starts some of the time in the playoffs.

By comparison, George Allen's teams were known for getting off to fast starts then fading (had leads in 5 of his 7 losses in the playoffs) regardless of the team he was coaching.

[SixtiesFan]

I heard that Rosenbloom said something about not wanting a N-Word (Shack Harris) or a Polack (Ron Jaworski) starting for his football team.

I find that impossible to believe. Just outside the realm of possibility. Carroll Rosenbloom was Jewish and has experience prejudice and was part of breaking down racial barriers
in Baltimore in the 50s and 60s - a town that had still big-time racist attitudes, very much part of the old South...tried to help players live in better neighborhoods, things like that.

he was big-time friends with Kennedys, campaigned for JFK and RFK-who ran on civil rights platform

His GM was Don Klosterman who was a scout and was a huge part of the AFL signing Black players like Earl Faison and Ernie Ladd and Bobby Bell, getting
them to the AFL but also supporting the scouts going to HBCUs and bring in those players, though he didn't do that scouting himself, Wells did that for the Chiefs
but Klosterman did the signings.

Klosterman signed Harris who was actually out of football when Rams brought him in in 1973, drafted Jaws. If he said something or thought those things
he would not have allowed those signings.

Was he perfect? Could he have used that type of language? Sure, many people did, so of course, that is possible, even so-called enlightened people did.
But in terms of "his team" - and now allowing that?

No buying it.

He just meddled in who would start. And meddled with other things. He was still an authoritarian, what he says, goes. He was a rich man who made
his money by running businesses that way, I am sure. He also had enemies--ties to mob, gambling and so on...

But he took pride in Harris being a Black QB for his team...had Shack not thrown a pick in 1974 playoffs and Rams somehow could have
managed to beat Vikings and/or Cowboys in 74 or 75 -and had he stayed healthy in 76 . . .he'd have stayed a long time, IMO been
a hero to Rosenbloom.

That's my take

I don't believe it either. In 1972 I saw Howard Cosell on a TV talk show (might have been Dick Cavett). The subject of black QBs came up. Cosell said Carroll Rosenbloom (who Cosell was friendly with) had gone out of his way to give a black QB a chance. As Colts owner (with Klosterman GM) he had drafted a black QB named Karl Douglas in 1971. Cosell mentioned that the Rams, now owned by Rosenbloom, gave John Walton (who stayed in the league several more years as a backup) a shot in the preseason. Later in 1972 Rosenbloom and Klosterman signed James Harris, who was working in the Nixon administration's Office of Economic Opportunity at the time.

Harris was given a lot of chances. He started several games for the Bills in his rookie year, but was injured, which occurred frequently the rest of his career. Harris began 1970 season as the Bills starter but flopped in preseason. Dennis Shaw became the starter. After being released in 1972, he went to the OEO and was signed by the Rams. Again Rosenbloom went out of his way to give a black QB a chance.

In the 1975 NFC Championship game, Harris committed several turnovers early in the game and the Cowboys jumped ahead and won in a blowout. In 1976 Harris had a big game in Miami, but bad Monday night performances against the 49ers and the Bengals. Rosenbloom is supposed to have then ordered Chuck Knox to start Pat Haden, who couldn't win the 1976 NFC title game in Minnesota. Rosenbloom then brought in Joe Namath and traded Harris to San Diego.

[JasonCulley]

The original poster had my Top TE at #3, Tony Gonzalez. My top 10 list looks a little different as I tend to see things from a fantasy football perspective.

10. Ozzie Newsome
9. Ben Coates
8. Todd Christensen
7. Kellen Winslow
6. Rob Gronkowski
5. Jason Witten
4. Antonio Gates
3. Shannon Sharpe
2. Travis Kelce
1. Tony Gonzalez

Jason

[7DnBrnc53]

But he took pride in Harris being a Black QB for his team...had Shack not thrown a pick in 1974 playoffs and Rams somehow could have
managed to beat Vikings and/or Cowboys in 74 or 75 -and had he stayed healthy in 76 . . .he'd have stayed a long time, IMO been
a hero to Rosenbloom.

OK. Thanks for sharing that. It was just You Tube scuttlebutt, anyway. Someone must have assumed something without all the facts.