Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

If it's of interest, there's a "Who should be the Senior nominee" poll and article at the Talk of Fame site that lists a bunch of Super-Seniors, including several players the PFRA officially supports. Link:

http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/who-sh ... 9-round-5/

Yeah, I commented and voted.

Wow, I think I stumbled on one of the earlier parts (part I maybe), but I didn't think they would go back as far as the 20s - I'm surprised. Voting for just one is tough, but I had to go Dilweg. Thanks for posting the link and great comment. I think all but Bucko Kilroy are in the HOVG. Bob Carroll's 20s team based on post season honors looked like this:

E: Lavie Dilweg, Guy Chamberlin, Ray Flaherty
T: Ed Healey, Wilbur Henry, Cal Hubbard, Gus Sonnenberg
G: Swede Youngstrom, Jim McMillen, Mike Michalske
C: George Trafton
B: Paddy Driscoll, Verne Lewellen, Doc Elliott, Benny Friedman, Ernie Nevers, Joe Sternaman, Rip King

Because he ordered them, given his methodology, his 11 presumably would have been:

E: Lavie Dilweg, Guy Chamberlin
T: Ed Healey, Wilbur Henry
G: Swede Youngstrom, Jim McMillen
C: George Trafton
B: Paddy Driscoll, Verne Lewellen, Benny Friedman
F: Doc Elliott

I actually just started reading Duke Slater's bio having recently finished Fritz Pollard's. I wonder if there is anything in the bio about Slater not getting post season recognition that he deserved - I know there has been a lot written about that happening with college all american teams.

Of the players I've got to watch enough to feel comfortable in rating them, Wistert is the clear choice, for me.

Including the rest of the players and going off what I've read, Dilweg would be the other one to consider.

I'd vote for Wistert since I got to see it with my own eyes. Once he was in then I'd vote for Dilweg.

I agree with you, Reaser. Wistert then Dilweg.

agreed with reaser gotta go with wistert

This is an article from a few years ago where PFRA gets a mention:

https://www.foxsports.com/other/story/d ... dly-071312

I'm all for Wistert, but I actually think he has a better chance of eventually getting in than anyone from the 20s. Some good quotes in the article about the process.

Looks like someone with a voting bot got to this poll as well. All of a sudden, tons of votes went for Duke Slater. Didn’t know there were any Rock Island Independents or Chicago Cardinals devotees out there — learn something new every day, looks like.

TanksAndSpartans wrote: Bob Carroll's 20s team based on post season honors looked like this:

E: Lavie Dilweg, Guy Chamberlin, Ray Flaherty
.

My mind is going, did Bob pick All-Decade teams based on honors? If so, could you point me to them? Coffin Corner? Hidden Game?

bachslunch wrote:Looks like someone with a voting bot got to this poll as well. All of a sudden, tons of votes went for Duke Slater. Didn’t know there were any Rock Island Independents or Chicago Cardinals devotees out there — learn something new every day, looks like.

Not sure why you'd assume it's a voting bot. Slater has 428 votes in the current poll, but previous polls were won by Andy Russell (538 votes), Roman Gabriel (1,318 votes, beating Pat Fischer's 1,233 votes), and Joe Jacoby (923 votes). It's not like Slater got 100,000 votes or something.

I have been advocating for Slater for years, and he was (as usual) overlooked in the voting and completely ignored in the comments here and there. With too few Rock Island Independents or Chicago Cardinals devotees out there, I might have mentioned the poll in an Iowa football fan forum...and let Hawkeye fans do what Hawkeye fans do. Most fans not only cast their vote but added comments like, "Wait, he's not in already?" and "He should have been in a long time ago!", comments I know you agree with given your past posting history.

It's been interesting to read the bios of the players included in these five polls...a lot of good players there. I'm still not convinced it's as hard as the Talk of Fame guys make it out to be, because while all of these players "deserve to be discussed", not all of them have a legitimate case. But there is a lot of talent in the Seniors pool, for sure.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:I actually just started reading Duke Slater's bio having recently finished Fritz Pollard's. I wonder if there is anything in the bio about Slater not getting post season recognition that he deserved - I know there has been a lot written about that happening with college all american teams.

I'd love to chime in on this, but I promise I won't give away too much.

Duke Slater was a six-time all-NFL pick and a seven-time "all-pro". In 1926, Slater played most of the season with the Rock Island Independents in Grange's AFL. As such, he wasn't included in any all-NFL teams, but the selectors who named true all-pro teams - including players from both the NFL and AFL - gave Duke his recognition that season. So that's the reason for the discrepancy.

The only years in which Slater wasn't mentioned as an all-pro in his ten-year career were 1922 (his first season), 1931 (his last), and 1928. In my opinion, he definitely performed at an all-pro level in 1922, but I think it was less about racial bias and more an "earn your stripes" attitude toward rookies, who most writers around the league hadn't seen play. By 1931, Slater was still a good player, but he had seemingly slipped from an all-pro level of dominance. In 1928, Slater's Chicago Cardinals only played six games as the team teetered toward bankruptcy (owner Chris O'Brien was forced to sell the team at the end of the year). I suspect that all-pro voters simply didn't have enough of a chance to see Duke perform that season to include him on such lists.

So I don't think he was ever left off any all-pro teams unfairly, at least not due to his race. Whether his race played a factor in being relegated to second-team all-pro rather than the first team, as well as his omission from the 1920s All-Decade Team, is much more compelling. I do touch on that a bit in the book, so I won't spoil that for you.