Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

All were qualified...and many who didn't get in were, too.

I would have preferred a lineman

The First-ballot thing is getting weaker.

Off top of head, Jackie Slater, Steve Young come to mind as guys who had flaws in the resume

Jason Taylor last year really blew it up. The 5 First ballot DEs are Gino, Deacon, Reggie and Bruce, and . . .Jason? Something wrong there.

Urlacher and Moss, borderline 1st balloters. From the highlight reels they are 1st balloters. But closer examination...maybe not

Moss ins a proven and admitted quitter. And to see him grouped with Rice and Alworth and Hutson...does not seem to fit. However, if you go why talent level then he is.

Urlacher...I get it, but it's to me borderline. He's a better 1st balloter than Jason Taylor or Jackie or Young... but he's not up to some others.

Just food for thought

Shocked by Urlacher too John.

Great highlights but always thought he was weak at the point of attack and easily blocked out of many plays. The Colts attacked him with their RB in their super bowl and won the game.

Why can’t Randy Gradishar get a sniff?

Do you think it will take him dying for Tommy Nobis to FINALLY get in?

15 to 10 that was eliminated: John Lynch, Everson Walls, Joe Jacoby, Isaac Bruce and Edgerrin James.
10 to 6 were: Ty Law, Kevin Mawae, Tony Boselli, Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson.

Elkman8102 wrote:Shocked by Urlacher too John.

Great highlights but always thought he was weak at the point of attack and easily blocked out of many plays. The Colts attacked him with their RB in their super bowl and won the game.

Why can’t Randy Gradishar get a sniff?

Carl Banks and that crew thought Urlacher was "soft"...for what it's worth

Gradishar, there are politics at play. The current ownership and their top execs only push for "their guys". They did make exception for Floyd Little, but they push the media for Mecklenburg, Atwater, etc.

Now Meck was a fine player and maybe deserves his day in court, but he wasn't what Gradishar was in skill and abilility and production. He was a good, not great ILBer on run downs, and a good, not great pass rusher in nickel. The whole "he played all 7 positions" up front.... yeah? Okay. Was he great at them? He was a good run stuffer, and had good pass rush moves, couldn't cover and lacked speed to be great pass rusher.

So, for some reason and I don't know why, some on the senior committee have gone to the Broncos brass to ask who they want pushed. And it's never Gradishar. It's like he slept with Bowlens daughter or something.

HBGFBFAN wrote:15 to 10 that was eliminated: John Lynch, Everson Walls, Joe Jacoby, Isaac Bruce and Edgerrin James.
10 to 6 were: Ty Law, Kevin Mawae, Tony Boselli, Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson.

Looks like neither Walls nor Jacoby had a chance. Jacoby’s first go as finalist was the only time he made the cut from 15 to 10. In fact, Jacoby was the only one of the five o-linemen not to survive the first cutdown. Definitely doesn’t look good for guys like Mike Kenn, Lomas Brown, and Chris Hinton — drawing the line in the sand with Jacoby pretty much finished them off.

And there’s definitely a big o-line logjam happening. Mawae, Boselli, Hutchinson, and Faneca all survived the first cutdown only to block each other from the final five. We’ll see how they manage to break that one.

Two of the smaller logjams pushed straight through into the finals, Owens/Moss and Lewis/Urlacher, both just small enough to get through in total and be elected.

Dawkins was the only single logjam breakout, from the DB group.

Interesting election dynamic.

JohnTurney wrote:

Elkman8102 wrote:Shocked by Urlacher too John.

Great highlights but always thought he was weak at the point of attack and easily blocked out of many plays. The Colts attacked him with their RB in their super bowl and won the game.

Why can’t Randy Gradishar get a sniff?

Carl Banks and that crew thought Urlacher was "soft"...for what it's worth

Gradishar, there are politics at play. The current ownership and their top execs only push for "their guys". They did make exception for Floyd Little, but they push the media for Mecklenburg, Atwater, etc.

Now Meck was a fine player and maybe deserves his day in court, but he wasn't what Gradishar was in skill and abilility and production. He was a good, not great ILBer on run downs, and a good, not great pass rusher in nickel. The whole "he played all 7 positions" up front.... yeah? Okay. Was he great at them? He was a good run stuffer, and had good pass rush moves, couldn't cover and lacked speed to be great pass rusher.

So, for some reason and I don't know why, some on the senior committee have gone to the Broncos brass to ask who they want pushed. And it's never Gradishar. It's like he slept with Bowlens daughter or something.

John, what is your take on Urlacher’s game? I honestly was never really impressed with him. Felt he was average at best in the run game. I never thought he played up to his size. Many people seem to have the same sentiment but now he is 1st Ballot with Ray Lewis?

Any link to Carl Banks and company’s thoughts on Urlacher?

Elkman8102 wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:

Elkman8102 wrote:Shocked by Urlacher too John.

Great highlights but always thought he was weak at the point of attack and easily blocked out of many plays. The Colts attacked him with their RB in their super bowl and won the game.

Why can’t Randy Gradishar get a sniff?

Carl Banks and that crew thought Urlacher was "soft"...for what it's worth

Gradishar, there are politics at play. The current ownership and their top execs only push for "their guys". They did make exception for Floyd Little, but they push the media for Mecklenburg, Atwater, etc.

Now Meck was a fine player and maybe deserves his day in court, but he wasn't what Gradishar was in skill and abilility and production. He was a good, not great ILBer on run downs, and a good, not great pass rusher in nickel. The whole "he played all 7 positions" up front.... yeah? Okay. Was he great at them? He was a good run stuffer, and had good pass rush moves, couldn't cover and lacked speed to be great pass rusher.

So, for some reason and I don't know why, some on the senior committee have gone to the Broncos brass to ask who they want pushed. And it's never Gradishar. It's like he slept with Bowlens daughter or something.

John, what is your take on Urlacher’s game? I honestly was never really impressed with him. Felt he was average at best in the run game. I never thought he played up to his size. Many people seem to have the same sentiment but now he is 1st Ballot with Ray Lewis?

Any link to Carl Banks and company’s thoughts on Urlacher?

No link on Banks. Got it from Dr Z personally, years ago obviously. I am fine with Urlacher, he did some great things. He could run well for his size, he played DE in nickle as a rookie, he's a guy I would say is a HOFer and getting in 1st try, to me, is borderline. I think he got stuck on blocks too much, even he admitted he had issues getting off blocker. Lewis was accused of "dodging" blocks by Poian. Then Jack Del Rio said there is not "extra credit" for running into guys

But overall I think his effectiveness in the pass game was better than most. I think he and Kuechley are similar, but with Kuechly better in run defense. Urlacher due to a bit more height a bit better in pass game. I saw games where Urlacher went off, was dominant.

I would put Lewis in the top group of MLBers....Butkus, Schmdt, Lambert

I would be Urlacher in the lower group of HOFer. Huff, Buoniconti, etc...

that is my take

Thanks for the responses John.

Urlacher probably could not have been successful before the 1990's, but his skills were well suited for the era. He was much better against the pass than the run, but PFR does credit him with a dozen tackles on the running game on the night when Edgerrin James ran 37 times for 55 yards.
And on the famed Bettis touchdown run, Bettis only scored because a lineman had a running start into him to push him in the end zone.
As far as being a 1st ballot HOF player, I'll quote Dr. Z. When asked if he would vote for Player X, Z would answer "Depends on who he is up against."