Mid '80's Cowboys

[lastcat3]

What do you make of the mid '80's Cowboys? It is a bit of an interesting period where they really weren't Super Bowl contenders anylonger but still an above average team that tended to start off seasons strong but then struggle to the finish line.

Was it a matter of a still talented team that was just getting some age on them and so they didn't have the stamina to be able to finish with those strong records? Was Landry beginning to show signs of the game passing him by at that point?

In '83 while looking back on it historically it probably was their weakest team of the early '80's but at the same time towards the end of the season they were 12-2 and those two losses were by a total of three points. They then end the season with two losses to Washington and to San Fran which really isn't too much of a surprise considering what those two franchises turned into during the '80's. They then lose in the playoffs to an underdog Rams team but it is hard to say if that loss was a sign of the team getting old or if it was just a sign of a team that was down on itself after two convincing losses.

'84 hits and they do lose their top WR after a car accident that ended his career but they still get off to a pretty strong start at 4-1. The season seems to be remembered as Landry being unable to decide on a starting qb as he regularly brought White and Gary Hogeboom in and out of the starting lineup. They finished 9-7 but were very close to finishing 11-5 (as they lost late in the year to the winless Bills and then were ahead of the Redskins 21-6 at halftime in week 15 and Washington came back in the second half to win 28-24).

'85 they get off to another strong start at 6-2. Then they lose to a Cardinals team that ended up finishing 5-11. They pretty much traded wins and losses after that and the real shocker was getting blown out by Cincy late in the year. Still made the playoffs that year based off of winning tiebreakers against the Giants and Redskins.

'86 is interesting. They again get off to another 6-2 start. You could blame the second half season collapse on losing White for the year and Pelluer coming in but Pelluer beat out White for the starting job the very next year.

So was it a case of a still talented team that was aging at that point. Where they could start off the year strong but couldn't make it through an entire season playing at that level? They obviously were not Super Bowl material anylonger but they at the same time definitely hadn't fallen off the cliff yet.

[Bryan]

What do you make of the mid '80's Cowboys? It is a bit of an interesting period where they really weren't Super Bowl contenders anylonger but still an above average team that tended to start off seasons strong but then struggle to the finish line.

Was it a matter of a still talented team that was just getting some age on them and so they didn't have the stamina to be able to finish with those strong records? Was Landry beginning to show signs of the game passing him by at that point?

In '83 while looking back on it historically it probably was their weakest team of the early '80's but at the same time towards the end of the season they were 12-2 and those two losses were by a total of three points. They then end the season with two losses to Washington and to San Fran which really isn't too much of a surprise considering what those two franchises turned into during the '80's. They then lose in the playoffs to an underdog Rams team but it is hard to say if that loss was a sign of the team getting old or if it was just a sign of a team that was down on itself after two convincing losses.

'84 hits and they do lose their top WR after a car accident that ended his career but they still get off to a pretty strong start at 4-1. The season seems to be remembered as Landry being unable to decide on a starting qb as he regularly brought White and Gary Hogeboom in and out of the starting lineup. They finished 9-7 but were very close to finishing 11-5 (as they lost late in the year to the winless Bills and then were ahead of the Redskins 21-6 at halftime in week 15 and Washington came back in the second half to win 28-24).

'85 they get off to another strong start at 6-2. Then they lose to a Cardinals team that ended up finishing 5-11. They pretty much traded wins and losses after that and the real shocker was getting blown out by Cincy late in the year. Still made the playoffs that year based off of winning tiebreakers against the Giants and Redskins.

'86 is interesting. They again get off to another 6-2 start. You could blame the second half season collapse on losing White for the year and Pelluer coming in but Pelluer beat out White for the starting job the very next year.

So was it a case of a still talented team that was aging at that point. Where they could start off the year strong but couldn't make it through an entire season playing at that level? They obviously were not Super Bowl material anylonger but they at the same time definitely hadn't fallen off the cliff yet.

I had a similar conversation about when the 1966 - ? Cowboys Landry/Schram/Brandt 'dynasty' ended. I think it was Bob Gill who mentioned that it ended towards the end of the 1983 season. For the majority of the 1983 season the Cowboys were still considered 'elite' and on par with previous Cowboys teams. Then at the end of the regular season the Cowboys got thrashed by both the Redskins and the Niners. Losing to a mediocre, one-dimensional Rams team (3 TD passes by Vince Ferragamo!) in the wild-card round was very Un-Cowboylike...that's the type of 1977 Bears/1978 Vikings/1982 Bucs team the Cowboys would have previously destroyed in the playoffs. The fact that the Rams were 'dispatched' by the Redskins 51-7 the next round kind of underscores this point.

The anomaly team was the 1985 Cowboys. They won with smoke and mirrors. Average offensively, average defensively, gave up about as many points as they scored, yet somehow finished atop the NFC East and once again beaten in the playoffs by a one-dimensional Rams team, with Eric Dickerson gaining more yards than Dallas.

[BD Sullivan]

Weak drafts at the top certainly hurt. Here are their first two picks from 1979-86, with Jim Jeffcoat the only standout:

1979: Robert Shaw and Aaron Mitchell
1980: Bill Roe and James Jones
1981: Howard Richards and Doug Donley
1982: Rod Hill and Jeff Rohrer
1983: Jeffcoat and Mike Walter
1984: Billy Cannon and Victor Scott
1985: Kevin Brooks and Jesse Penn
1986: Mike Sherrard and Darryl Clack

[sheajets]

Weak drafts at the top certainly hurt. Here are their first two picks from 1979-86, with Jim Jeffcoat the only standout:

1979: Robert Shaw and Aaron Mitchell
1980: Bill Roe and James Jones
1981: Howard Richards and Doug Donley
1982: Rod Hill and Jeff Rohrer
1983: Jeffcoat and Mike Walter
1984: Billy Cannon and Victor Scott
1985: Kevin Brooks and Jesse Penn
1986: Mike Sherrard and Darryl Clack

Indeed they didn't, however if you look at some of those drafts and where they were picking...it wasn't exactly like they had a lot of potential good players staring them in the face and they picked a lemon. Howard Richards in 1981. Well the next good player to go was James Wilder 8 picks later (Lomax the pick before Wilder) Neither were considered first round talents nor would Dallas really be interested as they had White/Dorsett. They took Doug Donley in round 2. I suppose Frank Warren was the better selection but nobody at the bottom of round 2 or top of round 3 that Dallas is looking back on and regretting not taking.

I suppose though in situations like this you should have the foresight to know when to trade up and grab a talent, but it takes two to tango.

[Gary Najman]

Weak drafts at the top certainly hurt. Here are their first two picks from 1979-86, with Jim Jeffcoat the only standout:

1979: Robert Shaw and Aaron Mitchell
1980: Bill Roe and James Jones
1981: Howard Richards and Doug Donley
1982: Rod Hill and Jeff Rohrer
1983: Jeffcoat and Mike Walter
1984: Billy Cannon and Victor Scott
1985: Kevin Brooks and Jesse Penn
1986: Mike Sherrard and Darryl Clack

Indeed they didn't, however if you look at some of those drafts and where they were picking...it wasn't exactly like they had a lot of potential good players staring them in the face and they picked a lemon. Howard Richards in 1981. Well the next good player to go was James Wilder 8 picks later (Lomax the pick before Wilder) Neither were considered first round talents nor would Dallas really be interested as they had White/Dorsett. They took Doug Donley in round 2. I suppose Frank Warren was the better selection but nobody at the bottom of round 2 or top of round 3 that Dallas is looking back on and regretting not taking.

I suppose though in situations like this you should have the foresight to know when to trade up and grab a talent, but it takes two to tango.

You''re right, but from 1974-1977 they managed trades for top draft choices like Ed "Too Tall" Jones, Randy White and Tony Dorsett, and then....for that alone I don't think that Gil Brandt derseves to be in Hall of Fame discussions.

[Gary Najman]

What do you make of the mid '80's Cowboys? It is a bit of an interesting period where they really weren't Super Bowl contenders anylonger but still an above average team that tended to start off seasons strong but then struggle to the finish line.

Was it a matter of a still talented team that was just getting some age on them and so they didn't have the stamina to be able to finish with those strong records? Was Landry beginning to show signs of the game passing him by at that point?

In '83 while looking back on it historically it probably was their weakest team of the early '80's but at the same time towards the end of the season they were 12-2 and those two losses were by a total of three points. They then end the season with two losses to Washington and to San Fran which really isn't too much of a surprise considering what those two franchises turned into during the '80's. They then lose in the playoffs to an underdog Rams team but it is hard to say if that loss was a sign of the team getting old or if it was just a sign of a team that was down on itself after two convincing losses.

'84 hits and they do lose their top WR after a car accident that ended his career but they still get off to a pretty strong start at 4-1. The season seems to be remembered as Landry being unable to decide on a starting qb as he regularly brought White and Gary Hogeboom in and out of the starting lineup. They finished 9-7 but were very close to finishing 11-5 (as they lost late in the year to the winless Bills and then were ahead of the Redskins 21-6 at halftime in week 15 and Washington came back in the second half to win 28-24).

'85 they get off to another strong start at 6-2. Then they lose to a Cardinals team that ended up finishing 5-11. They pretty much traded wins and losses after that and the real shocker was getting blown out by Cincy late in the year. Still made the playoffs that year based off of winning tiebreakers against the Giants and Redskins.

'86 is interesting. They again get off to another 6-2 start. You could blame the second half season collapse on losing White for the year and Pelluer coming in but Pelluer beat out White for the starting job the very next year.

So was it a case of a still talented team that was aging at that point. Where they could start off the year strong but couldn't make it through an entire season playing at that level? They obviously were not Super Bowl material anylonger but they at the same time definitely hadn't fallen off the cliff yet.

I had a similar conversation about when the 1966 - ? Cowboys Landry/Schram/Brandt 'dynasty' ended. I think it was Bob Gill who mentioned that it ended towards the end of the 1983 season. For the majority of the 1983 season the Cowboys were still considered 'elite' and on par with previous Cowboys teams. Then at the end of the regular season the Cowboys got thrashed by both the Redskins and the Niners. Losing to a mediocre, one-dimensional Rams team (3 TD passes by Vince Ferragamo!) in the wild-card round was very Un-Cowboylike...that's the type of 1977 Bears/1978 Vikings/1982 Bucs team the Cowboys would have previously destroyed in the playoffs. The fact that the Rams were 'dispatched' by the Redskins 51-7 the next round kind of underscores this point.

The anomaly team was the 1985 Cowboys. They won with smoke and mirrors. Average offensively, average defensively, gave up about as many points as they scored, yet somehow finished atop the NFC East and once again beaten in the playoffs by a one-dimensional Rams team, with Eric Dickerson gaining more yards than Dallas.

In 1985 they had some games with good offensive productions. Tony Hill and Mike Renfro were the top WR duo in Dallas since Hill and Drew Pearson in 1979. Danny White had also some strange games, like the SNF at the Giants, with 4 interceptions and Dallas won anyway 30-29 due to Giant turnovers in a game they supposed had to lost. For the record, White is the QB in NFL history with more victories (four) when throwing for four or more interceptions..

[7DnBrnc53]

Weak drafts at the top certainly hurt. Here are their first two picks from 1979-86, with Jim Jeffcoat the only standout:

1979: Robert Shaw and Aaron Mitchell
1980: Bill Roe and James Jones
1981: Howard Richards and Doug Donley
1982: Rod Hill and Jeff Rohrer
1983: Jeffcoat and Mike Walter
1984: Billy Cannon and Victor Scott
1985: Kevin Brooks and Jesse Penn
1986: Mike Sherrard and Darryl Clack

LB Billy Cannon, Jr. and WR Mike Sherrard would have done well for them if not for injury, but the rest of them didn't work out. Denver picked up DE Kevin Brooks in 1989, but he didn't make the team (probably because he couldn't beat out Ron Holmes and Alphonso Carreker, two other former first-round DE's that were cast-offs).

[conace21]

I read Skip Bayless' "God's Coach" years ago, and if you cut through all the blowhard crap, he does make some good points.
The Cowboys had been very successful drafting because they were the first to really take advantage of computers for the draft. However, by the mid-9
1980's, everyone was using computers; they had "caught up" to Dallas. Brandt used to find gems in the rough at small schools, or on college basketball teams. By the 1980's, other teams were looking at the same places. Brandt continued to reach, but now these were longer shots. They did have some bad luck with injuries, but also with lousy drafting.

Landry also probably remained too inflexible. He insisted on serving as the defacto offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator, and as the game evolved, it grew to be too much for one man.

The 1985 team was flukey. They did two things very well. They sacked quarterbacks and they picked off quarterbacks. They finished second to the Bears in both categories. With 62 sacks and 33 interceptions, they would have led the league in many seasons.

[JohnTurney]

The 1985 team was flukey. They did two things very well. They sacked quarterbacks and they picked off quarterbacks. They finished second to the Bears in both categories. With 62 sacks and 33 interceptions, they would have led the league in many seasons.

That was by design, I don't know the percentages but they played nickel/dime probably as much as or more than anyone in that era, I think. Bill Bates was one LBer, Hegman the other (previous years Dickerson and Bates were the LBers) in nickel, so it was dime personnel and nickel scheme, though there was dime, too, and in those cases it was Bates as sole LBer, so 7 DBs in dime coverage. And they would blitz the Lbers and/or DBs.

The Flex wasn't effective anymore, so those 1980-85 Cowboys are an interesting team because of how they used people. They, the Rams, the Bills were on the forefront of 6 and 7 DBs and having DBs play LBer. Now it's commonplace

[slats7]

Hogeboom not panning out also accelerated their decline. Instead, they had to go back to White, a guy who had lost the locker room a year before and had a knack for backbreaking turnovers.