Better HC, Don Coryell or John Robinson?

[74_75_78_79_]

Most at first glance will automatically say Coryell but remember, this is better HC and not better OC. One must put Don's legacy as an offensive mind aside for this. Warranting this thread is the easy-to-overlook fact that both have identical playoff-appearances (6), playoff victories (3), and CC-berths (2). If not the most historically underrated HC in pro football history, John Robinson has got to at least be one of them. Is it his USC rep that forever overshadows what he did in the pros? Was it a lack of 'aura' or a nickname (the 'Genuis', 'Tuna', 'the Man who wears the Fedora', 'Air Coryell', etc) while with the Rams?

He did inherit a terrible the past two years Rams team and immediately made them a playoff team in his first year, beating Landry at Dallas in his first playoff game. Yes, getting Dickerson didn't hurt and Dallas was in stumble-mode, but still. If not for the 'hiccup' in '87, not only would it have been Rob 'tying' Paul Brown's 6-straight-post-seasons-out-the-gate record before Bill Cowher the following decade, but making it 7-straight in '89 therefore bettering Cowher. Getting in the way of a Lombardi in his two CCs were two of the best teams of all-time, for Coryell it was the Raiders and Bengals (and an undermanned Oiler team in '79). Now Rams beating Pats in a hypo-SBXX, maybe/maybe-not, but vs Denver four years later? A pretty safe-to-say yes. Got to give it to Rob.

Now as an OC, Coryell by a mile. He's one of the greatest offensive minds ever (and, yes, a very good HC) which makes him very HOF-worthy. Both sides of ball combined however, Rob had the better balanced teams. Simply a couple CC-berths without having a specialty albeit offense or defense not enough to get you into Canton, but if he's not there already, I definitely think John Robinson should be inducted in HOVG ASAP. Agree?

EDIT: Robinson had 4 playoff wins to Coryell’s 3.

[Bryan]

Robinson had a nice rebuilding job in 1983 for a team that was always in the playoffs from 1973-1980. He had a good coordinators in Shurmur and Zampese. His teams went from being run-heavy and conservative on defense, to pass-heavy and aggressive on defense. A very good coach who occasionally surprised teams in the postseason (the 1989 win over Philly stands out). The Rams were trounced in their two CC games under Robinson (54-3 combined total), so I've never really thought of what would have happened if the Rams had made the Super Bowl those years. They lost big to Denver in 1988, and lost to the Patriots in 1986. I think the Rams team of 1988 was stronger than either the 1985 or 1989 team, but that 1988 team kind of pissed away the division to the Niners.

Coryell rebuilt two teams who weren't known for their winning history. I think that in itself puts Coryell one up on Robinson, even though Coryell had his own set of limitations as a HC. I don't think any of Robinson's teams come close to matching the 1979-1981 Chargers. They don't even match the 1974-75 Cardinals, either.

[BD Sullivan]

Coryell rebuilt two teams who weren't known for their winning history. I think that in itself puts Coryell one up on Robinson, even though Coryell had his own set of limitations as a HC. I don't think any of Robinson's teams come close to matching the 1979-1981 Chargers. They don't even match the 1974-75 Cardinals, either.

Coryell's St. Louis years were severely handicapped by tight-fisted ownership and an archaic structure where he had no say in the Draft.

[7DnBrnc53]

Coryell rebuilt two teams who weren't known for their winning history. I think that in itself puts Coryell one up on Robinson, even though Coryell had his own set of limitations as a HC. I don't think any of Robinson's teams come close to matching the 1979-1981 Chargers. They don't even match the 1974-75 Cardinals, either.

Coryell's St. Louis years were severely handicapped by tight-fisted ownership and an archaic structure where he had no say in the Draft.

That's why he ultimately left. I heard that the beginning of the end was when he wanted Robin Cole in 1977, and they took the half-blind QB (Steve Pisarkiewicz) instead.

[JohnH19]

I've said here several times that Coryell winning 31 out of 42 games with the 1974-76 Cards should have given him automatic entry into the HoF years ago.

[74_75_78_79_]

Great points, guys. OP was certainly no anti-Coryell post, but much more so a pro-Rob one. He is, still to this day, very NFL-underrated. I look back fondly on those early-'80s Charger teams. Watched, and enjoyed, quite a few of them 4PM Eastern games at the Jack. It made me wish I was living in SD as a kid and when I finally got to visit there much later, I was ever so further intrigued! Best unis they ever had IMO. Very exciting team - Fouts, Jefferson, Winslow, etc. Leading Cards in '70s to three straight winning seasons (may as well say '76 was another playoff year)...yes, makes Coryell even more HOF-worthy. Eons before the Bidwells "woke up" in the late-'00s...yes, HOF certainly deserved!

Still a comparison post worth launching in that both their post-season resumes are identical (as stated in that OP). Rob turned a now-bad Rams team immediately into a playoff regular once again whereas so many other HCs wouldn't have been able to do so. He was in...the brutal '80s NFC. Parcells, Gibbs, Ditka's Bears, and...last but not least...SF in their own back yard! And yet Rob was still no stranger at all in beating them at the Stick during his tenure. Heck, he even beat them there in '90 when the Rams suddenly went bad. And this very thing is what shocks me still about the '89 NFCC. No, not that Niners actually won (or by more than 7 or 10), but that they won...30-3! Was simply a case of the winner playing its very best as the loser played their very worst (pretty much the case in most '80s/early-'90s SBs). Going into that NFCC, I really felt the Rams would at the very least give them a pretty good game being it was at the Stick and the Rams, most of the time, knew how to play them there. As much as the '89 Niners were...the '89 Niners, the Rams almost did sweep them that very year. And as much as the '89 Niners were - again - just that, they were even BETTER (almost Perfect) that post-season.

You say, Bryan, that '88 was Rob's best with Rams. Great point, especially that scary 7-2 start wallpoing Tuna's G-men at Meadowlands, burying Seattle, beating Saints on road. Then whipping Bears later on after that four-game skid, beating Niners at SF in the finale but let's face it, Niners already clinched West. '89 IMO was Rob's best moment with Rams. Beating Philly was an upset at the time, but nowadays not so much. Beating Giants at Meadowlands the next week? Even more remarkable! Rams no longer had Dickerson, but Bell was more than complement enough with the passing arsenal they now had as opposed to Dieter Brock. Up until that sadly-for-him infamous 'Phantom Sack' game, Jim Everett was quite credible as a true QB. He even 'looked' the part - especially the part as a LA Rams-QB.

I may be wrong. Coryell may have a better body-of-work than Rob. But if so, to me, not by all that much. Both very good HCs just the same. And Don's well-known expertise as an offensive mind - and engineering Cards' best, and only truly good (playoffs), era in StL - warrants him for serious Hall discussion.

[CSKreager]

I always felt Coryell's Chargers underachieved by comparison.

I mean, John Robinson won an NFC West title with Dieter freaking Brock (along the way, beating the likes of Danny White/Montana/Elway)

[JohnTurney]

They were different types. Coryell was Xs and Os in running game and passing game. Robinson was into a philosophy of running a strong defense. He was a motivator, a salesman if you will. He turned over the Xs and Os to his assistants and Robinson did a great job in bringing in good assistant coaches.

Robinson was the CEO, he implanted the philosophy and let his guys do it. Coryell much more hands on, more of a guy who taught technique, etc.

Either way is okay, but they were different, at least that's my take. One, Xs and Os, the other the power of positive thinking philosophy.

[7DnBrnc53]

I always felt Coryell's Chargers underachieved by comparison.

There is an extremely knowledgable football fan that I met on You Tube (I sometimes e-mail him to talk about the NFL). He said that Don Coryell ran "country club" training camps, which may have been the reason for the underachieving.

[JohnH19]

I always felt Coryell's Chargers underachieved by comparison.

I mean, John Robinson won an NFC West title with Dieter freaking Brock (along the way, beating the likes of Danny White/Montana/Elway)

Dieter freaking Brock was a damn good quarterback who had a pretty good statistical season with the Rams, all things considered. It would have been better if Robinson didn't coach the Rams the same way he coached the Trojans and let him throw the ball more than 20-25 times a game. Trust me, I had season tickets all 10 seasons he played in Winnipeg and no one on either side of the border had a better arm. Despite Brock being obviously uncomfortable in the conservative Rams offense, after 11 seasons of throwing the hell out of the ball up here, he did still set what was then the Rams record for single season completion percentage. The '85 Bears made a lot of QBs look bad so losing to them in an ugly fashion in a cold, miserable NFC Championship Game was no disgrace.

Here's a link to the Sports Illustrated article from August 1985 about Brock joining the Rams:

http://www.si.com/vault/1985/08/19/6225 ... -an-enigma