Professional Football Researchers Association Forum
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bachslunch wrote:By FG percentage adjusted for era: Lou Groza, Jan Stenerud, Nick Lowery, Morton Andersen, Gary Anderson -- and they're pretty clearly alone at the top. At least that's what I remember seeing in rankings done by Chase Stuart and Rupert Patrick.
I think thats a good top 5. I think Groza was ahead of his time in terms of consistency...Stenerud was ahead of his time in terms of FG length...Lowery was ahead of his time in terms of consistency, but I think he is hurt by the fact that his "time" was truncated due to both Andersen & Anderson being very good while Lowery was still playing. I think if Andersen & Anderson started their careers in the mid-90's as opposed to the early 80's, Lowery would stand out more. Don't know if that makes sense. I would say Morton Andersen was the best K of his generation, but Gary Anderson was also great and Gary Anderson spent much of his career kicking in a terrible stadium (3 Rivers) while Andersen and later on, Jason Hanson, had the advantage of kicking in domes.
It would be interesting to also factor in kickoffs. Janikowski was great at kickoffs, whereas some guys like Mike Vanderjagt didn't even do that. I also think that guys like Tommy Davis and Dennis Partee who performed double duty should somehow receive extra credit.
bachslunch wrote: I also think that guys like Tommy Davis and Dennis Partee who performed double duty should somehow receive extra credit.
Surprisingly, there don't seem to be very many dedicated place kicker/punter combo specialists. Here's the full list of folks who actually did this for a significant part of their careers, as best I can find: Tommy Davis, Don Cockroft, Sam Baker, Don Chandler, Danny Villanueva, Mike Mercer, Dennis Partee, Dale Livingston, and Allen Green. That's only 9 players. I'd probably rank them in this order in terms of quality.
Jim Bakken did both for two years and Fred Cox and Mike Eischeid and Roy Gerela did both for one season, but these folks had long careers solely as placekicking specialists.
bachslunch wrote: I also think that guys like Tommy Davis and Dennis Partee who performed double duty should somehow receive extra credit.
Surprisingly, there don't seem to be very many dedicated place kicker/punter combo specialists. Here's the full list of folks who actually did this for a significant part of their careers, as best I can find: Tommy Davis, Don Cockroft, Sam Baker, Don Chandler, Danny Villanueva, Mike Mercer, Dennis Partee, Dale Livingston, and Allen Green. That's only 9 players. I'd probably rank them in this order in terms of quality.
Jim Bakken did both for two years and Fred Cox and Mike Eischeid and Roy Gerela did both for one season, but these folks had long careers solely as placekicking specialists.
I've mentioned before that Lou Groza used to get very annoyed when he was referred to as a "Hall of Fame kicker" since he took a great deal of pride in his work on the OL.
Tommy Davis strikes me as having a Hall-worthy career as a punter. Dr. Z definitely thinks so too, given what I've read.
Also I just noticed he was 348 for 350 on career XPs, which is saying something considering his era.
Davis held the record for consecutive XPs made for many years. Dr. Z has made the point that Davis's kicking prowess was especially remarkable given that he played half his games in swirling wind stadiums like Kezar and Candlestick.
ChrisBabcock wrote:
It's easy to forget how good Jason Hanson was being mired on horrible Lions teams most of his career.
Hanson was great. Add Eddie Murray's twelve seasons ahead of him there and that makes life good for a Lions' ST coach for a 30+ year stretch.
With some minor blips along the way, the Browns have almost always had a solid kicker:
Lou Groza (1946-59, 1961-67)
Don Cockroft (1968-80)
Matt Bahr (1981-89)
Matt Stover (1991-95, followed by 1996-08 with the Ravens)
Phil Dawson (1999-2012)
Sam Baker, Dave Jacobs and Jerry Kauric fill in the gaps between 1946-95
The Browns had Billy Cundiff for 2013 and most of last year, and now have Travis Coons. Ironically, Coons is perfect (16-16) in FG's, but has missed two XP's.
If not mistaken, Tommy Davis was a straight-on kicker and a Fullback with the infamous "Chinese Bandits" - the nickname given
the 1958 LSU team coached by Paul Dietzel.
The "White" team included a Halfback / D-back named Billy Cannon who would win the Heisman Trophy a year later.
Davis was the team Kicker and the Fullback on the "Gold" team which was, in effect, the 2nd team Offense.
The "Chinese Bandits" was the 2nd team Defense but was brought in whenever Dietzel wanted to spice things up a bit.
The #1 ranked LSU team capped their 10-0 regular season with a Sugar Bowl win over #12 Clemson and were declared
National Champions by the UPI (Coaches) and AP polls.
In their infernal ignorance, the Football Writers Association awarded the Grantland Rice Trophy to the University of Iowa
for their lesser accomplishment of an 8-1-1 season.
Funny... the more things change, the more they remain the same.
"It was a different game when I played.
When a player made a good play, he didn't jump up and down.
Those kinds of plays were expected."
~ Arnie Weinmeister
I'd mention Ken Strong, if solely because he was the first kicking specialist, once held record for longevity and was instrumental in getting the limited substitution rules changed to allow for the kicking specialist (making place-kicking more automatic, but that's another topic)
Also, wasn't Paul Horning a punter and place-kicker, as well as running back?
