Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Who's better and why?

And while at it - moving onto the next year - had it been the Jets facing the G-men in SBXXI instead, how much better a game than Denver do you think they give them if they give them a better game at all?

I think the Giants had better players and better coaches, even though they had a slightly worse record than the Jets. The Jets managed 6 points against the 85 Bears, the Giants managed 0. The Jets had Freeman McNeil, but I Joe Morris was/is highly underrated and 1985 was one of his big seasons. I think he had back-to-back 181 yard games.

Ken O'Brien actually led the NFL in QB passer rating in 1985, which I did not know. Phil Simms somehow made the pro bowl despite some incredibly average statistics. Looking over Phil Simms career, I must be missing something. For a guy who usually had a 1000-yard RB and a top defense, his performance was mediocre. Peter King usually hypes Simms for the HOF every couple years.

Denver gave the Giants all they could handle for one half in SB XXI. The goal-line stand/Karlis missed FG sequence and the Rutledge fake punt in the 2nd half kind of turned the game around. I don't think Ken O'Brien could have duplicated Elway's performance, so I don't think the Jets would have done any better than the Broncos. The Giants were clearly the class of the NFL that year once Jim McMahon got hurt.

Something I do recall in a NFL Films segment (maybe it was a Game of the Week) is that NY's other no. 56 (Lance Mehl) was having a season like LT.

Bryan wrote:Phil Simms somehow made the pro bowl despite some incredibly average statistics. Looking over Phil Simms career, I must be missing something. For a guy who usually had a 1000-yard RB and a top defense, his performance was mediocre. Peter King usually hypes Simms for the HOF every couple years.

Simms is my least favorite broadcaster and I don't have any affinity for Giants quarterbacks, but he's in the discussion for longtime starter who played with the worst receiving corps.

The man who caught the most yards from Simms was.... Lionel Manuel! Manuel caught 11% of Simms' yards, Bavaro 10%, Bobby Johnson 6%, Earnest Gray 5%, and everyone else under five percent. That's terrible. http://www.footballperspective.com/the- ... rew-it-to/


Simms produced the peak receiving year for 16 different players, which also stands out given his relatively poor numbers: http://www.footballperspective.com/whic ... receivers/

When you look at receiving corps, I don't know if Simms has had it better than anyone. Maybe, maybe Sam Bradford. Mike Pagel had it bad, but his career was much shorter. Among guys with a lot of attempts, it's the Joey Harringtons, Jim Harbaughs, and Trent Dilfers of the world that grade out here with really bad groups, but they still had it better than Simms.

If you want to make the pro-Simms argument, it basically revolves around saying he had the worst supporting cast of any quarterback since 1978 (as far back as I went the last time I looked at this).

Chase Stuart wrote:

Bryan wrote:Phil Simms somehow made the pro bowl despite some incredibly average statistics. Looking over Phil Simms career, I must be missing something. For a guy who usually had a 1000-yard RB and a top defense, his performance was mediocre. Peter King usually hypes Simms for the HOF every couple years.

Simms is my least favorite broadcaster and I don't have any affinity for Giants quarterbacks, but he's in the discussion for longtime starter who played with the worst receiving corps.

The man who caught the most yards from Simms was.... Lionel Manuel! Manuel caught 11% of Simms' yards, Bavaro 10%, Bobby Johnson 6%, Earnest Gray 5%, and everyone else under five percent. That's terrible. http://www.footballperspective.com/the- ... rew-it-to/


Simms produced the peak receiving year for 16 different players, which also stands out given his relatively poor numbers: http://www.footballperspective.com/whic ... receivers/

When you look at receiving corps, I don't know if Simms has had it better than anyone. Maybe, maybe Sam Bradford. Mike Pagel had it bad, but his career was much shorter. Among guys with a lot of attempts, it's the Joey Harringtons, Jim Harbaughs, and Trent Dilfers of the world that grade out here with really bad groups, but they still had it better than Simms.

If you want to make the pro-Simms argument, it basically revolves around saying he had the worst supporting cast of any quarterback since 1978 (as far back as I went the last time I looked at this).

I recall Jerry Magee in his Pro Football Weekly column circa 1979 wrote the Los Angeles Rams "have no receivers." Admittedly, Magee, who was a San Diego writer, loved to ridicule the LA Rams.

Chase Stuart wrote: Simms is my least favorite broadcaster

His son Chris is even worse, an absolute disaster behind the mike. Before West Virginia's 2013 season opener, Chris infamously announced that he was broadcasting from "Morgantown, Virginia". A few minutes into the game, Chris informed us that Mountaineer coach Dana Holgorsen "has a lot of weapons at his disposable".

I'm guessing you mean 1986 Jets vs 1986 Giants

First off the Jets would've had to corral Elway in the AFC title game, though they did have the speedy pass rush to do so (and did beat Denver earlier in the year) That game is probably a coin flip, but I lean Jets win

The Super Bowl would be tough, first off you have Joe Walton vs. Parcells/Belichick. So Toon or Walker...one of those guys would've been totally taken away for the entire game. I doubt McNeil/Hector would've been able to do much either.

Trying to not be a homer here...tough to see them winning that game, but doubt NYG wins by 20 or so like they did to Denver

sheajets wrote:I'm guessing you mean 1986 Jets vs 1986

No, I meant '85. Two good-not-great wild cards.