Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

JohnTurney wrote:HOF Class of 2016: DeBartolo, Dungy, Favre, Greene, Harrison, Pace, Stabler & Stanfel

DeBartolo - a no for me, but I am pretty much against all modern-day owners being in the HOF. There is no financial risk. I don't really care about anything else. I used to actually think about owners...what impact they had, what committees they served on, etc....but its pointless. Someone here (Reaser?) mentioned the same thing...how hard WAS it for Art Modell to negotiate an NFL TV contract?? Are we to think that if Modell doesn't negotiate that contract, the NFL ceases to be on TV and gets swallowed up by the AFL?

Dungy - a questionable choice, but I am fine with him being in. I think the bar for coaches making the HOF is much too low.

Favre - yes

Greene - maybe not an elite player, but a very productive player for a long period of time in several different systems. I was glad he got in.

Harrison - another guy I was rooting for. A small guy who caught passes over the middle and maintained his durability.

Pace - yes. Probably the 2nd best OT of his era behind Ogden...3rd best if you count Boselli.

Stabler - questionable at best, but I can live with it.

Stanfel - no, but it clears up the pipeline for better Senior candidates!

Note on Terrell Owens...there was no way he was going in first ballot. He created too much angst. I think Billy Howton retired as the all-time leading receiver in league history, but nobody liked him and he never got close to Canton. At least Owens will most likely get in next year.

Bryan wrote:Kind of an odd way to put it..."languished". Dungy retired from the NFL after a short career, spent one year in college as position coach, then was hired by Chuck Noll to be an assistant on the Steelers staff. At the time he was by far the youngest assistant coach in the league. Within three years, he was elevated to DC. The Steelers defense under Dungy was inconsistent. He moved to KC as a DB coach, then made a name for himself as the Vikings DC in the early 90's. His 4 years in Minnesota vaulted him to become the HC at Tampa Bay at age 41. Belichick was 39 when he got the Cleveland job. Andy Reid was 41...John Fox 47...Tom Coughlin 49. Lombardi was 46. Do you think Dungy had to wait overly long to become a HC? If so, at what point of his assistant career would it have been logical for him to become a HC?

This. I made similar points on other forums/comment sections because it was crazy how incorrectly people view things, because of skin color. "Dungy had to wait until the Rooney Rule to even get an interview" has been a popular comment the last week (since the expansion of the Rooney Rule to include females for executive positions, and Dungy with the HOF) ... That's so wrong it's ridiculous.

My personal opinion, I always feel it does a disservice to the coach when skin color is part of their credentials. Tony Dungy wasn't gifted a HC job because he's black, he earned it. Even Mike Tomlin, who people use most as an example of the Rooney Rule working, it bugs me because someone this week literally said: "Tomlin wasn't known in the NFL until the Steelers interviewed him because of the Rooney Rule, and he impressed in the interview so much they hired him." The latter part of that is a story of convenience, I've always felt. The truth is that everyone in the NFL knew who Tomlin was, he's one of my favorite coaches, his accomplishments as a HC to date have nothing to do with his skin color and all to do with his abilities. Can't stand that line one (or two if SB is first) of his football resume is "the Rooney Rule worked!" ... Disservice to him and his skills as a coach.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:Here's an excellent blog entry about Dungy's induction:

https://dubsism.wordpress.com/2016/02/0 ... ment-28027

Not sugar-coating something is always an excellent thing, but reading some other blogs this guy made about Dungy falls under the category of inappropriate/unnecessary. That said, much from this particular blog I can't say I disagree with. Those one-and-doners throughout his HC career are hard to ignore, especially the ones in Indy when it was to a lower-seeded team (specifically to SD). The Steeler in me, along with he 'setting the table' for Gruden (almost beating 'Greatest Show on Turf' along the way), of course WINNING one in Indy, and simply being a nice guy is what prevents me, personally, from having a major problem with his induction. He's definitely a shoo-in '1st ballot' HOVG at the very least and always enjoy hearing his takes on Sunday Night Football or on any other commentary. A class act he is.

What the blogger left out when talking about other HCs who won one SB, he left out both Bill Cowher and Mike Holmgren. Both have even more regular season wins than Dungy along with both having an above-500 playoff record. Cowher lost his share of home AFCCs before finally capturing SBXL, but he at least still had to win a playoff game to get that far. His only one-and-dones were in his very first two seasons - one of them to a seasoned-Buffalo squad smack in the middle of their SB-run and the second to...Joe Montana. Holmgren had a few more one-and-dones than Cowher but does have another SB-appearance over him; and two over Dungy.

All I ask is that if Dungy is in, shouldn't both Cowher and Holmgren have ALREADY gotten in?

[quote="Bryan"]

Stanfel - no, but it clears up the pipeline for better Senior candidates!
quote]

Something about Stanfel that very few people have been saying even in his two previous Senior attempts it's his OL coach career of more that 30 seasons in the NFL. Although not all were successful (see his time with the Saints, when he was the HC in the final games of the 1-15 1980 season), his time with the Chicago Bears with Mike Ditka surely was. Walter Payton could stay healthy and break Jim Brown''s rushing record, and Neal Anderson could replace Payton adequality thanks in great part to Jimbo Covert, Mark Bortz, Jay Hilgenberg, Tom Thayer and Keith Van Horne, one of the most underrated offensive lines ever.

I think if Dick LeBeau is in (combining his playing and asssistant coaching resume), Dick Stanfel also should be in.

by Reaser » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:23 pm
"...My personal opinion, I always feel it does a disservice to the coach when skin color is part of their credentials..."

Absolutely!

As one with an ancestor who was a major conductor with the Underground Railroad, it is always upsetting when morons
pull the race card from up their sleeve. It is a slimy under-handed ploy to express their true feeling which is usually
extreme bias.
That written, it must be said that Tony Dungy is not a hof-caliber coach.
He is surely a nice guy and has developed into an excellent commentator but he is not a hof coach.

This was a year of the sympathy vote.
Tragedy begets sympathy; sympathy begets undeserved honors.
You can go down the list and name quarterbacks far more worthy than Stabler.
You can go down the list and name coaches far more worthy than Dungy.

Reference to the "Rooney Rule" is ridiculous. If anything, there should be reference to an unwritten "Davis Precedent."
Yes; Al Davis was a wildcat and a rebel but his team has succeeded beyond all expectations. And... it has done so
in spite of the efforts by some who would not make a pimple on Davis' butt to destroy him and his organization.
Davis put a black Head Coach in place because he thought Shell was the best man for the job.
He caused eyebrows to raise and generated some public accolades but, behind the facades of many, he was vilified.
Davis then did the unthinkable. He fired his black coach because he thought he (AD) had made a mistake.
Yea! for that thing called Truth - a little-used trait of character in far too many enterprises, especially at the league level.
But... one thing about Truth: you may like it or you may dislike it but it will always be the Truth.
(Our own organization is finally starting to experience a little bit of Truth.)

So, please, leave the race card in your cuff. State your case concerning Dungy and ALL candidates based on qualifications.

If you want to talk about race, here's a projection:
This is the last year you will see a "class" with a white majority. Take that to the bank.

Finally... the choice of a large hall and low bar for entry has been made with the inclusion of DeBartolo, Stanfel,
and the aforementioned Dungy and Stabler.

Que sera, sera...

---

by Teo » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:08 pm
"...I think if Dick LeBeau is in (combining his playing and assistant coaching resume), Dick Stanfel also should be in."

LeBeau is another example of lowering the bar.

---Edited for spelling error @ 1940 on 2/9/2016

oldecapecod11 wrote:Reference to the "Rooney Rule" is ridiculous.

Especially in Dungy's case, since he was a HC before the "Rooney Rule" even existed.

Reaser wrote:

oldecapecod11 wrote:Reference to the "Rooney Rule" is ridiculous.

Especially in Dungy's case, since he was a HC before the "Rooney Rule" even existed.

While that's true, Rich McKay said that the first question he asked Dungy was something like, "Why have you never been hired as a head coach after you've interviewed for several jobs?"

When Dungy replied that this was his first interview for a head coaching job, McKay was thunderstruck. He figured, with Dungy's record as an assistant over a 15-year period, he must have been interviewed not just once but several times.

rhickok1109 wrote:

Reaser wrote:

oldecapecod11 wrote:Reference to the "Rooney Rule" is ridiculous.

Especially in Dungy's case, since he was a HC before the "Rooney Rule" even existed.

While that's true, Rich McKay said that the first question he asked Dungy was something like, "Why have you never been hired as a head coach after you've interviewed for several jobs?"

When Dungy replied that this was his first interview for a head coaching job, McKay was thunderstruck. He figured, with Dungy's record as an assistant over a 15-year period, he must have been interviewed not just once but several times.

Still has nothing to do with the Rooney Rule.

... and I have thought Dungy interviewed for a handful of jobs before TB? Didn't he interview for the Packers job that Infante got and that was what, 1988?

Perhaps it's true that TB was his first HC interview, I wouldn't take known liar McKay's word for it, I would of course take Hickok's word - if you can re-confirm for me (since of course, you know the Packers history well) ...

Until then I'll go with Dungy had previous HC interviews, and that this particular TB story is likely another story of convenience conjured up to spread the agenda.

Here were my thoughts on Dungy:

http://www.footballperspective.com/thou ... l-of-fame/

His winning percentage is really exceptional. He won 2 out of every 3 games. That's unbelievable, and worthy of some real credit.

For those curious, Manning was the starting QB in 125 of 227 games (55%), Trent Dilfer for 60 (26.4%), Shaun King for 24 (10.6%), Brad Johnson for 17 (7.5%), and Eric Zeier for 1 (0.5%).

Chase Stuart wrote:Here were my thoughts on Dungy:

http://www.footballperspective.com/thou ... l-of-fame/

His winning percentage is really exceptional. He won 2 out of every 3 games. That's unbelievable, and worthy of some real credit.

For those curious, Manning was the starting QB in 125 of 227 games (55%), Trent Dilfer for 60 (26.4%), Shaun King for 24 (10.6%), Brad Johnson for 17 (7.5%), and Eric Zeier for 1 (0.5%).

Its interesting that three of those QBs were starting QBs for Super Bowl winning teams coached by someone other than Tony Dungy.