Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

paulksandiego wrote:What happened to Marvin Harrison? Is there a good reason he wasn't at the NFL Honors show?

I was to ask the same thing, and one moré thing: when they aré notiffied to travel (or not, as the case of Owens, Andersen et al) on a short notice?

Chase Stuart wrote:Dungy is 12th in career winning percentage and 9th in wins over 0.500. Hell, Dungy's winning percentage is better than Belichick's. It's not like he was not a valid candidate.

Also, Dungy only had one below-.500 season as a HC in his career when he went 6-10 in his rookie year in TB in 1996. Also, he went to the playoffs 10 times in 13 seasons. He also turned around the Bucs organization and set the table for Gruden to win a Super Bowl there. In the first 20 years of the franchise, the Bucs had been to the postseason three times, but in six seasons under Dungy, the Bucs made the playoffs on four occasions. Also, I can think of at least four of his assistants who have gone on to become head coaches including Mike Tomlin and Leslie Frazier. He also won a Super Bowl as a player and a coach, I know Ditka also did and I'm thinking there might have been another one, maybe Tom Flores with the 69 Chiefs. He had a stellar career as a head coach, and I think you can make a HOF argument for him. I do not think he lowers the standards of the HOF at all.

T.O. was on ESPN and he said he felt "disrespected" and he also said he thinks that not being 1st-ballot does take away from 'it' (eventually being elected) ...

Which is pretty much what the HOF is, not an honor for the modern player, but an expectation.

It's also become not a place for the very greatest professional football players, but a place for hyped up and popular players.

On a different note, I think those giving the selectors 'credit' for essentially mapping-out when players get in have both lost the plot and are giving the voters entirely too much credit. These are people that need 'presentations' on players to be convinced of who to vote for and to learn about the players they're voting on - the most known players in football history. To think that they're able to plan what's allegedly "fair" when it comes to who goes in when, is a bit much.

I like Dungy. He is a good person. However, that doesn't make him a HOF candidate.

He only had one losing season. That's true. However, can he be given all the credit for Tampa's turnaround? I don't know about that. They may have done just as well if Sam Wyche stayed past 1995.

Also, in Indy, I felt that he should have gotten away from the Cover 2 after a few years and implemented a new defensive scheme. They were just getting average players to fit a scheme, not talented ones, which is why the defense didn't do that well.

Also, I don't think that Harrison should be in yet. He is a playoff choke artist. Also, he may not have had the career he did without Manning. Terrell Davis and TO deserved it more than these two. Just another example of voter incompetence.

Not so random change of subject... Is it possible this year we could have the first ever HOF presenter who is himself a "classmate" of that HOF player? (Dungy potentially presenting Harrison)

Reaser wrote:T.O. was on ESPN and he said he felt "disrespected" and he also said he thinks that not being 1st-ballot does take away from 'it' (eventually being elected) ...

Which is pretty much what the HOF is, not an honor for the modern player, but an expectation.

It's also become not a place for the very greatest professional football players, but a place for hyped up and popular players.

Not smart on TO's part to be a whiner about this regardless of what he may think. As we saw with Cris Carter, this is a great way to get the voters irritated at you and delay your induction further.

And the PFHoF stopped being a "small hall" (i.e. for the very greatest players only) just a couple years after its inception, given that both Walt Kiesling and Joe Guyon were elected in 1966 and Wayne Millner and Alex Wojciechowitz in 1968.

They don't think his "drops" matter that much.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:I like Dungy. He is a good person. However, that doesn't make him a HOF candidate.

He only had one losing season. That's true. However, can he be given all the credit for Tampa's turnaround? I don't know about that. They may have done just as well if Sam Wyche stayed past 1995.

Also, in Indy, I felt that he should have gotten away from the Cover 2 after a few years and implemented a new defensive scheme. They were just getting average players to fit a scheme, not talented ones, which is why the defense didn't do that well.

Also, I don't think that Harrison should be in yet. He is a playoff choke artist. Also, he may not have had the career he did without Manning. Terrell Davis and TO deserved it more than these two. Just another example of voter incompetence.

There's a lot of credit to go around for what happened in Tampa, including Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch and Jon Gruden among others. But I think it was the ownership change and Dungy coming in that changed the direction of the team. I just don't think Wyche would have turned the organization around, and if Dungy wouldn't have wound up in TB, he would have been very successful somewhere else. The cream always rises to the top. I feel Dungy was destined to have a successful career as a Head Coach in the NFL.

I didn't realize it until I started looking into the coaching talent who worked under Dungy was that most of the assistants who worked for him who wound up becoming Head Coaches in the NFL were African American. As the first African American HC to win the Super Bowl, he has helped to open the gates to mentor and develop a number of other minority assistants to follow his example and become a HC in the NFL, which may turn out to be his greatest legacy.

bachslunch wrote:And the PFHoF stopped being a "small hall" (i.e. for the very greatest players only)

The comment was meant in addition to the modern player comment, hype/popularity is incorrectly synonymous with "great".

See: The players that former players on NFLN and ESPN complain about not being in the HOF over the years (e.g. the yearly "He has 5 rings!" stuff, until he was elected. Or pounding the table for "The Bus" as if his so-called wait was egregious) ...

rhickok1109 wrote:

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:I don't get why they can't make these decisions while the candidates are still alive.

Because they made the right decision when Stabler was still alive and bowed to sentiment after his death.

I was thinking about Stanfel, actually, and about Bob Hayes, and Don Coryell, who seems like he's going to get in next year. I do tend to agree with you about Stabler.