Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Another thing about the 1967 Green Bay/Giants game, Bart Starr had not played for three weeks prior to that game due to an injury suffered in the Packers game with Atlanta. Zeke Bratkowski was Green Bay's quarterback in their last two games against Detroit and Minnesota. So, Starr may have been a little rusty against the Giants.

Bart Starr was 8 for 20 for 151 yards and 1 TD against New York. Not terrible, but not one of his greatest games. Starr was 14 for 21 for 249 yards and two TD's in the Cleveland game and Green Bay seemed to be hitting on all cylinders in that one. Then there were the 2 kickoff returns for TD's by Travis Williams and the Packers, one to start the game. It just looks like nothing went right for the Browns in that game, and everything went right for the Pack.

I wonder what would have happened if the game was played in Cleveland? I am sure that Green Bay still would have won, but 55 to 7?

Getting back to the Cleveland-Detroit game in 1967, won by the Lions, 31 to 14, Here are some more excuses, if you will.

1. Detroit was in a great frame of mind after getting a tie in their opening game with Green Bay, which was at Green Bay. Detroit really must have felt that they had a chance to dethrone the Packers in the Western Conference, or at least win the new Central Division.

2. Cleveland was thought to be a cinch to win the new Century Division with Dallas now in a different division and the Cardinals having to go with a new quarterback with little experience. Despite getting Tarkenton, the Browns probably did not expect the Giants to be a real threat. So, they could afford a loss more than Detroit.

3. Gary Collins was injured early in the game which left the Browns with only Paul Warfield as their regular starting end or receiver. Warfield was probably double or triple teamed all day. Collins was Cleveland's best possession receiver. Usual starting tight end Milt Morin was out for most of the season.

4. Post Dallas game let down. During the late 60's, Cleveland always seemed to play a terrible game following their Dallas games. The way Detroit ran seemingly at will for first down after first down indicated to me that the Browns were very flat that day.

5. The game was in Detroit, which made it even more difficult for Cleveland. I don't think that the Browns had ever beaten the Lions at Detroit's Briggs Stadium up to that time.

6. Frank Ryan was 9 for 19 for 87 yards with 2 interceptions. Not one of his better days, even in 1967.

7. Leroy Kelly ran well that day, but fumbled while running for a TD which would have got the Browns up to 21 points. The Lions recovered.

There are probably more excuses that I can't think of right now or maybe even know about.

The Detroit game was Frank Ryan's second worst game of 1967 by passer rating with a rating of 38.6. The worst, of course, was the Green Bay game with a rating of 9.5.

Ryan's three best that year were Washington at 127.7, Pittsburgh (second game) at 117.4, and New York (first game) at 115.0. Even though the first Giants game was third best, the Browns lost that one 38 to 34 with 4 turnovers and a blocked punt going against them.

The rest were Chicago 91.7, St. Louis (2nd game) 87.1, New Orleans 86.4, New York 85.7, St. Louis 79.2, Pittsburgh 70.4, Minnesota 64.2, and Dallas at 42.5.

So, if you take away the Green Bay and Detroit games, then Frank Ryan's passer ratings do not look quite so bad. The ratings seem to be the best against the teams with the worst defenses, and worst against the teams with the best defenses.

Frank Ryan's Passer Rating stats in 1966 were so much better than his 1967 Passer Rating stats that game for game, the 1966 stats were better. For example, the best game in 1966 Passer Rating was 139.9 compared to 127.7 in the best game of 1967. The 5th best was 111.5 in 1966 compared to 87.1 in 1967, and the 10th best in 1966 was 88.7 compared to 64.2 in 1967.

I don't believe that any kind of stat in 1967 for Frank Ryan was better than any stat in 1966. It is amazing that Ryan played as much as he did in 1967 with all of the injuries that he had.

Here is something that further separates the quality of play between the 1966 Cleveland Browns and their 1967 team. In 1966, the Browns lost a game to the Green Bay Packers by the score of 21 to 20. In that game, Cleveland was ahead at some point in the first half, 14 to 0. The Packers chipped away at that lead by Cleveland and ended up winning the game on the last play of their last possession which was a fourth and goal situation on the 9 yard line of Cleveland.

On that play, Bart Starr threw a screen pass to Jim Taylor and Taylor managed to get around at least 2 Browns tacklers and make the 9 yards for the winning TD. The TD and the extra point made the final score 21 to 20, so Green Bay managed to get their closest win of that era. It also served to end up pretty much killing Cleveland's chances of winning the Eastern Conference Championship for the third year in a row.

From 1960 until Green Bay's last regular season game of 1967 against Pittsburgh, the Packers did not lose even one game against a team in the Eastern Conference, which includes some pretty good teams like the New York Giants (early sixties), Dallas Cowboys, and Cleveland. Of all the games against Eastern Conference opponents between 1960 and their final regular season game with Pittsburgh in 1967, the Cleveland game was their closest in games against Eastern Conference teams.

BTW, in the 1967 Pittsburgh game, Green Bay had their division clinched and the game really did not mean anything. Green Bay played many of their reserves in that game and their third string quarterback, Don Horn, played most of that game at quarterback.

And so, that is quite a difference in the years 1966 and 1967. In 1966, the Cleveland Browns gave the Green Bay Packers their toughest game of any eastern opponent during the years in question. In 1967, Cleveland lost 55 to 7 to Green Bay.