Professional Football Researchers Association Forum
PFRA is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the history of professional football. Formed in 1979, PFRA members include many of the game's foremost historians and writers.
SixtiesFan wrote:
As someone who followed pro football when Carroll Rosenbloom was a prominent team owner, I believe Rosenbloom should be in the PFHOF.
I could see it either way but it is without debate that he was a very historic figure in NFL history...big-time behind Rozelle's hiring, part of
the merger, teams won 3 titles...lost one...but he had enemies---ties to gambling, etc.
Shrevedude wrote:What did Virginia McCaskey do that was notable to get that one vote? Is this solely on being the daughter of George Halas? Be the only person alive during the first 100 years of the NFL?
Right. It's like having the oldest living WWIII veteran being elevated to the level of George Patton for no other reason than simply being alive.
I'll renew my complaint that the most deserving 'contributor' is Pat Summerall. Player, announcer, NFL Films, True Value Hardware, Golden Tee...his contributions are endless.
For Vainisi to miss the cut is a shame. Without him, there may have never been the legend and legacy of Vince Lombardi. He helped give Vince free reign, not to mention great players.
The Owners that run everything may not like Bernie Parrish, yet he helped pave the way for the players to make millions today, whether they play or not. A true player advocate, he helped older veterans as well who were getting zilch from being used and abused by NFL Films and the Networks who profited off their play and name value. Hardly anyone, much less a player, had the balls to expose the corporate greed of the ownership and management of this league to the public but he did and should have a place in this Hall Of Fame, not sons, daughters and wives of owners.
Who is next on the semifinalist list? Georgia Frontiere? The city of Baltimore would still like its first Lombardi Trophy back ...
I still wonder if Rosenbloom was left off this list for violating the 1966 Merger Agreement by moving the Rams from the Coliseum to Anaheim, though its still part of Los Angeles? Even if what he did wasnt a violation, he influenced Al Davis and later Bud Adams to do it ...
Brian wolf wrote:F
I still wonder if Rosenbloom was left off this list for violating the 1966 Merger Agreement by moving the Rams from the Coliseum to Anaheim, though its still part of Los Angeles? Even if what he did wasnt a violation, he influenced Al Davis and later Bud Adams to do it ...
In my opinion that has nothing to do with it. Voters don't usually dig that deep. I think the voters of the 80s-90s didn't consider him a HOFer--back then they were fighting about Rozelle and he finally got in after a several times on Final 15. By the time those old-time voters were gone--early 2000s ... he was no longer on the radar...and recently, the owners who got in were the moderns, SF, Dal, Den ...
Modell, though, DID and is getting punished for the move to Baltimore. It happened when these writers were active, many of them, and they hated the Browns being moved.
Rosenbloom, I could see getting held back because of the rumors about his life ... the writers in 1980s and 90s would be privy to a lot of that information. But I honestly do not think him moving to Anahem has anything to do with it. I think it was just that we has controversial in his times because if certain rumored ties.
Possible Reasons Rosenbloom Hasnt Been Elected Yet
*Ties to gambling, nefarious business associates, hotel-casino activity, ownership, etc.
* Inside knowledge of television deals that allowed him to deceive, manipulate and buy out minority owners of the Baltimore Colts.
*Getting rid of Weeb Ewbank ... haha, owners can hire and fire who they want but it was unusual at the time to fire a coach that successful. The microscope got considerably hot for Rosenbloom once his team was beaten by an AFL team coached by the man he fired. Carroll got his SB victory in early 1971 but was tired of the city and politicians and wanted out. He found a sucker right around the corner.
*Swapping Franchises with new Rams owner Robert Irsay. Smart move on his part allowing the Rams legacy to keep winning but disastrous for the city of Baltimore. GM Joe Thomas helped the Colts rise to prominence again but once QB Bert Jones got injured in 1978, Irsay and the team went downhill as well.
*Moving the Rams to Anaheim ... technically still Los Angeles but moving the team from its home since the late 40s, could have still violated the 1966 Merger Agreement that did not allow for any team movement, as long as the team's stadium could capacitate over 50,000 people.
Naturally, another owner in Al Davis wanted to take over the larger Los Angeles Coliseum, while moving his team from Oakland. A clear violation of the merger agreement that the other owners allowed. This paved the way for violations by Irsay, Modell and later Bud Adams, who discontinued an Oilers team's NAME and HISTORY ...
*Manipulation of Commissioner Pete Rozelle ... along with Tex Schramm, both had an unusual influence on the young commissioner, which admittedly helped the league grow but also allowed Rozelle to not only turn the other way to owners' ties to gambling and ownership in hotels/casinos but Rozelle's obvious violations of anti-trust exemptions from congress.
Yes, I am beating a dead horse but with what happened to the Baltimore Colts, what would happen with the future movement for the Oakland Raiders(who at least went back) Cleveland Browns, St Louis Cardinals, Los Angeles Rams(by Rosenbloom's wife) and the Houston Oilers, it's easy for writers and voters to possibly vilify Rosenbloom, despite his winning legacy with his teams and helping the league grow with more exposure on the networks.
I know, firing Weeb has nothing to do with Rosenbloom's future enshrinement, in fact, the Colts won even more games without the championships under Shula, but once SB III was in the books, the events in Carroll's life would escalate to affect the entire future history of the NFL until his murder in 1979 --I don't think it was accidental drowning or suicide--and as a Colts fan of that period, especially before Shula, you wonder had Carroll never fired Ewbank ... would the team still be in Baltimore, would Carroll had been content to stay in the city and lived longer? Hindsight always allow speculation.
As someone pointed out last year, its always a great day when Modell doesnt get elected, or even making the Finalist list. Disappointed that Eddie Kotal never seems to get his due. His scouting methods influenced Pro Baseball as well. Glad MartyBall made the Finalist list. He won for every team he coached. Had Modell not let him go, would the Browns had stayed in Cleveland, instead of heading for Baltimore?
I think an owner like Kraft will finally get voted in. It would be ironic if he fired Belichick before induction but we will see. I would vote in Buddy Parker but glad to see Shaughnessy get continued support.
Brian wolf wrote: Carroll got his SB victory in early 1971 but was tired of the city and politicians and wanted out. He found a sucker right around the corner.
I thought it was more that Carroll had a house on the coast in California and didn't like having to fly back and forth so much. I don't think he was really fighting with the city of Baltimore.
Brian wolf wrote:*Moving the Rams to Anaheim ... technically still Los Angeles but moving the team from its home since the late 40s, could have still violated the 1966 Merger Agreement that did not allow for any team movement, as long as the team's stadium could capacitate over 50,000 people.
Naturally, another owner in Al Davis wanted to take over the larger Los Angeles Coliseum, while moving his team from Oakland. A clear violation of the merger agreement that the other owners allowed. This paved the way for violations by Irsay, Modell and later Bud Adams, who discontinued an Oilers team's NAME and HISTORY ...
Always thought this issue was illustrative of Rozelle's hypocrisy. Rosenbloom should not have been allowed to unilaterally move the Rams out of LA to Anaheim....Anaheim is a completely different area from downtown LA. Its twice the distance of SF to Oakland. To let Rosenbloom do whatever he wanted to do, and then to prevent Davis from moving to LA and being further away from the nearest rival is kind of petty.
Somewhat related, I think its interesting that back in the day of the merger, the NFL required a unanimous vote to approve a merger agreement, while the AFL required only a majority vote. The NFL owners voted unanimously in favor, but Sonny Werblin and Al Davis voted against the merger agreement, but it didn't prevent anything since they were in the minority.
Rosenbloom wasnt going to get a new stadium in Baltimore and neither would Irsay. For Irsay to give him the Lombardi Trophy after trading franchises' was stupid ... Rozelle was in his and Schramms pocket. Even Modell followed them around like a puppy dog. At least these moving owners didnt wipe out a team name like Adams.
Davis believed the Sullivans were on his and Werblin side but they went along with everyone else; they had too, they didnt have nearly the resourses of the other owners. Wayne Valley never gets the credit he deserves. He created the monster that would become Al Davis by giving him an ownership piece of the team. He would regret that decision later but still should be remembered ...
