Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Back to back plays late in the 2001 Snow Game at Foxboro.
New England was down to their final timeout, and the Raiders had a 3rd and 1. Fullback Zack Crockett ran up the middle but was knocked head over heels by Richard Seymour for no gain. On the ensuing punt, Troy Brown had a nice return, but fumbled. At first it looked like a Raider would be in prime position for it, but the ball was knocked to a spot where punter Shane Lechler had to take on three Patriots, and New England recovered.

Either of those two plays turn out differently, and we likely never hear of the Tuck Rule.

From the Patriots POV, Vinatieri probably never gets to try his famous kick without Brown's big return. In the snow, New England wasn't making any big plays, but rather a series of short, successful plays.

conace21 wrote:Back to back plays late in the 2001 Snow Game at Foxboro.
New England was down to their final timeout, and the Raiders had a 3rd and 1. Fullback Zack Crockett ran up the middle but was knocked head over heels by Richard Seymour for no gain. On the ensuing punt, Troy Brown had a nice return, but fumbled. At first it looked like a Raider would be in prime position for it, but the ball was knocked to a spot where punter Shane Lechler had to take on three Patriots, and New England recovered.

Either of those two plays turn out differently, and we likely never hear of the Tuck Rule.

From the Patriots POV, Vinatieri probably never gets to try his famous kick without Brown's big return. In the snow, New England wasn't making any big plays, but rather a series of short, successful plays.

Also, here are some other plays earlier in NE's season that qualify:

Week 1 against Cincy: With 2:41 left (NE down 23-17), the Pats had the ball on the Bengal 41 (4th and 2). Bledsoe sneaked to try to get the two yards, and looked like he got it. However, they marked him just short, and the Bengals got the ball.

The Pats stuffed Dillon and got the ball back (on their own 31), but were unable to do anything (a quick whistle for in the grasp when Bledsoe completed a pass was a killer).

If Bledsoe gets that first down, maybe he leads them to a come from behind win to start the season, and he is harder to replace (if it still comes to that).

Week 2 against NYJ: With 8:48 left in the third quarter, the Pats have the ball on the Jet 10 (second and seven, score tied 3-3). However, Marc Edwards fumbles, LB James Darling recovers, and the Jets go on a 6:13 drive to take a 10-3 lead.

If Edwards doesn't fumble, and the Pats get a TD of their own, maybe Bledsoe isn't on the receiving end of a hard hit by Mo Lewis, and Mr. Overrated doesn't enter the game.

Also, if they win both of those games with Bledsoe, and he suffers a different injury later in the season (that makes him miss a few games), it makes it less likely for them to keep Brady in there, especially after the huge contract Bledsoe got.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

conace21 wrote:Back to back plays late in the 2001 Snow Game at Foxboro.
New England was down to their final timeout, and the Raiders had a 3rd and 1. Fullback Zack Crockett ran up the middle but was knocked head over heels by Richard Seymour for no gain. On the ensuing punt, Troy Brown had a nice return, but fumbled. At first it looked like a Raider would be in prime position for it, but the ball was knocked to a spot where punter Shane Lechler had to take on three Patriots, and New England recovered.

Either of those two plays turn out differently, and we likely never hear of the Tuck Rule.

From the Patriots POV, Vinatieri probably never gets to try his famous kick without Brown's big return. In the snow, New England wasn't making any big plays, but rather a series of short, successful plays.

Also, here are some other plays earlier in NE's season that qualify:

Week 1 against Cincy: With 2:41 left (NE down 23-17), the Pats had the ball on the Bengal 41 (4th and 2). Bledsoe sneaked to try to get the two yards, and looked like he got it. However, they marked him just short, and the Bengals got the ball.

The Pats stuffed Dillon and got the ball back (on their own 31), but were unable to do anything (a quick whistle for in the grasp when Bledsoe completed a pass was a killer).

If Bledsoe gets that first down, maybe he leads them to a come from behind win to start the season, and he is harder to replace (if it still comes to that).

Week 2 against NYJ: With 8:48 left in the third quarter, the Pats have the ball on the Jet 10 (second and seven, score tied 3-3). However, Marc Edwards fumbles, LB James Darling recovers, and the Jets go on a 6:13 drive to take a 10-3 lead.

If Edwards doesn't fumble, and the Pats get a TD of their own, maybe Bledsoe isn't on the receiving end of a hard hit by Mo Lewis, and Mr. Overrated doesn't enter the game.

Also, if they win both of those games with Bledsoe, and he suffers a different injury later in the season (that makes him miss a few games), it makes it less likely for them to keep Brady in there, especially after the huge contract Bledsoe got.

As I've mentioned before, according to Dick Rehbein, he and Belichick wanted to make Brady the starter in 2002 no matter what happened in 2001. They were very happy that they got to do it a year early.

The huge contract really didn't enter into it. That was all Bob Kraft's doing.

As I've mentioned before, according to Dick Rehbein, he and Belichick wanted to make Brady the starter in 2002 no matter what happened in 2001. They were very happy that they got to do it a year early.

The huge contract really didn't enter into it. That was all Bob Kraft's doing.

I don't know about that. Rehbein was a big Brady fan, so he may have been biased.

Last summer, on Pro Football Talk, Mike Florio asked Charlie Weis if there was any plan to make Brady the starter by 2002. Weis said that there wasn't.

Wendell02 wrote:Week 11, Detroit at Baltimore, 12/4/1960. Lenny Moore makes a diving catch of a Unitas pass for the go-ahead TD with 14 seconds left. Colts fans swarm the field in jubilation. On the first play after the KO, Detroit's Earl Morrall hits Jim Gibbons for the game-winning TD with no time left. Leading 15-13, Baltimore DB's are guarding the sidelines to keep the Lions out of FG range. With no time outs left, Morrall tells Gibbons, "If you go down the middle, you'll probably be open." Couple of Google articles:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=V ... %2C2040594

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_ ... %2C6218309

Really probably the most exciting game I've ever seen on film. To me it's much more exciting the the 58 championship and up there with Dolphins Chargers hook and lateral.

NWebster wrote:

Wendell02 wrote:Week 11, Detroit at Baltimore, 12/4/1960. Lenny Moore makes a diving catch of a Unitas pass for the go-ahead TD with 14 seconds left. Colts fans swarm the field in jubilation. On the first play after the KO, Detroit's Earl Morrall hits Jim Gibbons for the game-winning TD with no time left. Leading 15-13, Baltimore DB's are guarding the sidelines to keep the Lions out of FG range. With no time outs left, Morrall tells Gibbons, "If you go down the middle, you'll probably be open." Couple of Google articles:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=V ... %2C2040594

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_ ... %2C6218309

Really probably the most exciting game I've ever seen on film. To me it's much more exciting the the 58 championship and up there with Dolphins Chargers hook and lateral.

It may be the best regular season game of the 1960's, certainly in the top five to be sure, along with the 1960 Bills-Broncos Thanksgiving game, the 1964 Philadelphia-St.Louis game and the 1965 Bears-49ers game when Sayers went wild, and maybe the 72-41 Giants-Redskins game, just to name a few.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:I don't know about that. Rehbein was a big Brady fan, so he may have been biased.

"May have been biased." That's funny.

1976 AFC Divisional Playoff-New England at Oakland. Ahead 21-17 with under 5 minutes to play the Pats face a 3rd and 6 at the Oakland 32 (should have been 3rd and 1 but for an offside penalty). Grogan rolls out and throws a pass that hits TE Russ Francis between the 8 and 1 on his white jersey. Unfortunately Raiders LB Phil Villapiano has his arms wrapped around Francis' arms, effectively pinning them to his sides, and the ball just drops to the ground. No call. John Smith's long FG try is just short, and minutes later comes the infamous Sugar Bear Hamilton Roughing the Passer call on Ken Stabler courtesy of ref Ben Dreith. The Raiders score and go on to win their first championship. Even 5 NE SB titles later this one still hurts...Francis tells a story to this day about how he met Villapiano on a plane that offseason and told him to get the hell away from him before he tossed him out. Phil complied!