1975 Pittsburgh Steelers item

[Halas Hall]

I noticed Seahawks Fever nominated Dave Brown to the Hall of the Very Good and thought are the 1975 Steelers underrated? When you're placing players like Preston Pearson on waivers in September of 1975 and making a player like Dave Brown available in the 1976 expansion draft it seems they were so talented they did not have spots for top players. Are they underrated?

Thank you.
Nick

[JohnTurney]

I noticed Seahawks Fever nominated Dave Brown to the Hall of the Very Good and thought are the 1975 Steelers underrated? When you're placing players like Preston Pearson on waivers in September of 1975 and making a player like Dave Brown available in the 1976 expansion draft it seems they were so talented they did not have spots for top players. Are they underrated?

Thank you.
Nick

It was Bradshaw's top year to date, better than he'd been ... by far.

Joe Greene, though, played on bad shoulder last half of year, pinched nerve really affected him for a couple of years, so he was not as good in 1975 as 1974. Greenwood hobble by ankle injury also, but he was pretty much well by POs.

Poeple talk about the 76 Steelers defense, but always felt the 76 team caught some poor teams in a row. I think 75 defense every bit as good as 76 even with injuries to Greene and Greenwood ...

But as far as underrated? I don't know --- in relation to other Steelers' teams of the 70s? Or as an all-time team?

Probably the best of the 4 SB winners and most rank the 70s Steelers dynasty pretty high ...

[SeahawkFever]

From a Seahawks fan, the 1975 Steelers are underrated, or at the very least overlooked team in my opinion.

I say the 75 team gets overlooked because the 76 and 78 teams also exist.

76 gets a lot of attention for being a bit of a “what-if” because they had injuries to Terry Bradshaw (as well as Franco Harris and Ricky Blier in the AFC Championship Game) and the best regular season the Steel Curtain would ever play. I would concede that if nobody got hurt and everyone played up to their potential, then the Steelers threepeat in 1976, and that team could have been a candidate for the best team ever, and if course members of the team consider it their best season (they played opponents that had a win percentage of .528 I believe and put up the best simple rating system metric on pro football reference of the three).

1978’s Steelers get a lot of attention because they are regarded as the best Steelers team in just about any NFL Films piece I’ve seen (if anyone is aware of any that rank another Steeler team above 78, feel free to correct me). The Steelers also played a very good postseason that culminated in Super Bowl XIII which is regarded as one of the best collections of talent to ever take the field at once by some.

So 76 is regarded as the best one by the organization that played it, and 78 is regarded as the best by NFL Films. 75 is a bit overlooked by contrast.

However, I think there is an argument for 1975 having been the best season the Steelers played in those years.

Unlike 1976, the 1975 team actually ended up winning it all as opposed to losing in the AFC Championship Game. As I said above 76 could’ve won it all with no injuries but as is they unfortunately didn’t.

As for 1978, they did have the best postseason performance of the three (in particular a 34-5 win in the 1978 AFC Championship Game), but at the end of the day 75 and 78 both won it all.

However I’d say 1975’s Steelers played a better regular season than 1978, and I might be inclined to argue that the difference between their regular season performances is more of a gap than their playoff performances.

The 1975 Steelers as well as 1978 both lost two games each, and 78 admittedly played two more games. But 75 had the best point differential in the league at +211 as opposed to the +161 that the 78 squad put up, and a similar thing could be said about the results of pro football reference’s simple rating system too.

The 1978 Cowboys would have a better point differential than the 1978 Steelers.

The 75 squad also played a tougher schedule than 78 by opposing win percentage (.469 vs .449).

Also 1975 scored more points total and per game and allowed fewer points total and per game than 78, and I think it says something that the 1975 squad scored 17 more points on the season in two fewer games without the Mel Blount rule.

Don’t get me wrong, the 1978 Steelers are an excellent team, and if the 1976 Steelers had no injuries I’m taking them over the other two, but I think 75 may be the best.

One other fun fact about the 1975 Steelers: They had eleven pro bowlers; the most of any Super Bowl champion I believe, and other than the 1992 Saints I’ve not come across any other team with three pro bowl linebackers, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

They also had three first team all pros, and a further four second team all pros by the Associated Press. There are only 21 post merger teams with seven AP first or second team all pro players; 16 of which made at least the conference championship game, and two of the remaining five had the best point differential in their respective season even if they didn’t make it to the conference championship game.

I gotta say that the Steelers had an amazing stretch there in the 70’s if they had three teams that were this excellent.

[SeahawkFever]

I noticed Seahawks Fever nominated Dave Brown to the Hall of the Very Good and thought are the 1975 Steelers underrated? When you're placing players like Preston Pearson on waivers in September of 1975 and making a player like Dave Brown available in the 1976 expansion draft it seems they were so talented they did not have spots for top players. Are they underrated?

Thank you.
Nick

It was Bradshaw's top year to date, better than he'd been ... by far.

Joe Greene, though, played on bad shoulder last half of year, pinched nerve really affected him for a couple of years, so he was not as good in 1975 as 1974. Greenwood hobble by ankle injury also, but he was pretty much well by POs.

Poeple talk about the 76 Steelers defense, but always felt the 76 team caught some poor teams in a row. I think 75 defense every bit as good as 76 even with injuries to Greene and Greenwood ...

But as far as underrated? I don't know --- in relation to other Steelers' teams of the 70s? Or as an all-time team?

Probably the best of the 4 SB winners and most rank the 70s Steelers dynasty pretty high ...

One thing you could say for both 75 and 76’s Steeler defenses: Neither one allowed a first quarter touchdown in their regular seasons, and they combined to allow only eleven second quarter touchdowns (six for 1975 and five for 1976, with two of 75’s being fumble recoveries).

[JohnTurney]

76 gets a lot of attention for being a bit of a “what-if” because they had injuries to Terry Bradshaw (as well as Franco Harris and Ricky Blier in the AFC Championship Game) and the best regular season the Steel Curtain would ever play. I would concede that if nobody got hurt and everyone played up to their potential, then the Steelers threepeat in 1976, and that team could have been a candidate for the best team ever, and if course members of the team consider it their best season (they played opponents that had a win percentage of .528 I believe and put up the best simple rating system metric on pro football reference of the three).

Always fun to speculate but the thing is, they played tough teams but lost several of them. Then the defense dominated some good teams (like Bengals) but also faced Giants, Bucs, Chargers ... during that run.


Maybe if they had played Pats and Vikings later they'd have dominated --- they lost to Raiders both times but yes, 2nd one without their RBs.

If anything, 1976 team may be overrated ... a team that was great by usual standards but not as great as teams before and after but that the defense was possibly better.

IMO, the 1974 defense was the best. The 1978 offense the best. 1975 team the best.

[SeahawkFever]

IMO, the 1974 defense was the best. The 1978 offense the best. 1975 team the best.

Very well put, and I’d largely agree. 75 Steelers are one of the best teams in NFL history in my opinion.

[74_75_78_79_]

I've said it previously...I think the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers are the #1 Team of All-Time! And considering that, seemingly, most don't see it this way - giving '78 and also '76 more Historic kudos as already mentioned - perhaps they are, indeed..."underrated". It's either me seeing them as Numero Uno or a take-your-pick between they and the 1941 Chicago Bears. Something that both have in common is that, hard to believe, each one's defense ranked "just" 4th in the league! And in 1941, mind you, there were only 10 teams as opposed to 26 in '75.

However, there’s something to say about those three ‘better’ defenses than those Monsters of the Midway in ‘41. First, the Giants’ defense - that, yes, was the one that finished in 1st - didn’t have to play either of the top-two offenses during the regular season. And not only did these very teams have the top-two offenses, but they both, in order, happened to be the top-two teams in the league-period in ‘41, both finishing with identical 10-1 records!. And they, yes, just so happened to be the Bears themselves at #1, and the Packers at #2.

The G-men finally did play one of them in the LCG and allowed the Bears to put up 37 on them to their 9. The 2nd-best defense that year, the Dodgers, only played Green Bay and on the road in Wk#6. They surrendered 30 against them in an also lopsided defeat. Washington’s #3 defense played both teams in ‘41. They gave up 35 in Chicago and 22 at home to GB two weeks after that.

So it’s simply just an example of stats not always telling the tale. Simply “looking” at both teams’ body-of-work and comparing them to other All-Time Greats is what does it for me here. And whereas the ‘41 Bears did have the #1 offense, such a powerhouse of a unit that even overshadowed the other, also-great, side of the ball, the ‘75 Steelers were “only”...#7 in offense. But, as already pointed out, they still scored more points in 14 games than the more-heralded (“Air” Bradshaw to Swann/Stallworth) 1978 installment did in 16 games. Not just that but the offense gained more yards-per-game, and more yards-per-play at 5.1 to 4.8. And, also, '78 had 10 Pro Bowlers and 5 All-Pros. But 1975 had 11 Pro Bowlers and 7 All-Pros!

Although I do opine that they are better than the ‘85 Bears or ‘72 Dolphins if not by much, I dare say that the 1978 Pittsburgh Steelers just may be a little…overrated. Just a little; or maybe not. If only because it seems like most fellow-Steeler-fans or non-Steeler-fans seem to give more Historic kudos to them than they do the ‘75 squad. Yes, a 9-2 start but maybe (maybe not) lacking just a bit of ‘bite’. Their two prime-time affairs, both of them on MNF - at home vs Houston and in LA three weeks later - both result in a loss. From there, though, they put it in another gear. This especially goes for the Steel Curtain; e.g - shutting down Houston at the Astrodome, 13-3, in their rematch.

And then they really turn it up in the playoffs! They decimate the Orange Crush, 33-10, and shutdown Houston even-more-so, 34-5, in the AFCCG. Yes, the weather, but both had to play in it and Bum’s smash-mouth Houston squad was clearly ‘built’ for such conditions! And then putting up a 35-17 lead over defending-Champ, Big D, albeit a missed catch and some controversy possibly playing the part. But that’s preparation for you thus seizing the moment and taking advantage of opportunities; not allowing mishaps to rattle you - and those Chuck Noll Steeler teams, especially in the ‘70s, were SO good at that and it should not be underscored! It made a difference in those big, close games with all at stake!

Well, I guess I just gave some explanation as to why those ‘78 Steelers are as Heralded as they are. And it didn’t hurt that XIII is widely considered to be the “Most Important” Super Bowl ever with an outrageous amount of future-Hall of Famers ever so present in that Event! On the line was either ‘Best Team of All-Time’, ‘Best Team of the ‘70s’, or somewhere in-between along with who’s IN Canton now because their team won or who isn’t - or took long enough to get in - because their team lost, fair-or-not.

If God told me that the ‘89 Forty Niners were actually better than the ‘78 Steelers, I’d cringe but then I’d accept and believe. Better than ‘75?? I’d cringe noticeably longer. To me, the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers are a ONE-loss team! I see them as a 12-1 team for obvious reasons. And maybe a subconscious reason why many don’t see them as being what they should be seen as being, is because of that meaningless loss in the finale in LA on MNF that ‘forged’ them at 12-2 instead. And, in their first playoff game, allowing a Bert-less Colts team to hang around as long as they did maybe not hurting their Historic case, but not helping it either.

Just the same, you had Paul Brown’s arguably best Bengal team at 11-3 and a 10-4 Bum Phillips Oiler team both in the same division with them - and, yes, those Steelers sweep them! And beating Madden’s Raiders again for the AFCC, and then Chuck Noll “daring” Captain Comeback (fresh off his ‘Hail Mary’ three weeks prior) to do just that by going-for-it on 4th down late in the game; and then… stopping him! And with bad, almost-costly special teams mind you! Just imagine had that very unit been up-to-par with the other two? But it wasn’t, and maybe that could be seen as another reason for their…underrated-ness.

As Lynn Swann said, destroying the Chargers at SD in the opener, 37-0, gave them all the reason in the world to be overconfident; thinking a repeat would be easy. Bills come to town in Wk#2 and give them the ‘wake-up’call that was just what the Dr ordered! And the rest would be History!

The ‘76 team…yes, the ultimate what-if in sports being the famous “had Franco & Rocky played in the AFCCG”! And did they EVER steamroll down the stretch! Yes, easy competition as said. You can only play who’s on your schedule, but shutting down Ken Anderson’s Bengals to zero TDs in both wins over them should knock enough wind out of such an “easy schedule” take. They didn’t just beat these ‘bad’ teams, but annihilated them (as the ‘99 Rams did against their inferior opponents)! Recording FIVE shutouts vs modern NFL competition while only allowing a total of two TDs (both within the same game) in a 9-game span is recording FIVE shutouts vs modern NFL competition while only allowing a total of two TDs (both within the same game) in a 9-game span! And then to blast the Colts in Baltimore, 40-14, with Bert Jones playing this time!

Remarkable stuff! What “could’ve” been. But I’m not a Steeler-fan to write it “in Stone” that had #32/#20 been available that they’d “automatically” beat Oakland. Maybe they would have. But, equally, maybe not! Of course the Raiders DID beat them full-strength on the opener! And its not as if it was the first time either. They’ve been an “anyone can win” rivalry the past several years. And this very team, that finished 13-1, and was HC’d by…John Madden may have simply been due in ‘76. We’ll just simply never know (a more intriguing what-if, this or Jimmy Johnson coaching Big D vs SF in ‘94? take your pick). Either way, because of the simple unfortunate no-championship, I must place ‘75 and even ‘78 above them. And I got to place both '74 & ‘79 above them for that reason as well.

Dave Brown…yes, I get it, Steelers’ secondary was STACKED! But I’d like to think that they could have found a reason to protect him from that expansion draft. Especially with Glen Edwards gone by the time ‘78 & ‘79 arrived. To see both he and Shell, together, rise up during that time and into the ‘80s would have been fun!

[Bryan]

IMO, the 1974 defense was the best. The 1978 offense the best. 1975 team the best.

I think statistically the best team is the 1979 team, because they put up some big offensive numbers. They averaged almost two yards more per play than their opponents (5.8 to 4.1). But they had a ton of turnovers and were inconsistent throughout the year. That said, they took care of business in the postseason despite both Jack Ham and Mike Wagner being injured, which is impressive.

Dr. Z said the 74-75 Steelers were superior to the 78-79 Steelers, and I would tend to agree. I think what sets the Steelers apart from most other great teams is that they could play any style of football and still win. They are like the 70's A's teams to me...they didn't really have a singular standout season, but they were consistently good over several years and would always find a way to win.

One thing about the 75 Steelers is that Greene's injury affected their run defense. It was not nearly as good as the other Steel Curtain seasons. They allowed 1800+ yards at 4.2 per carry; OJ had a 200+ game, Mike Adamle had a 100+ game IIRC. Whenever I would run All-Time tournaments on my PC back in the day, the 75 Steelers would not do well because they would get gashed in the run game.

[JohnTurney]

IMO, the 1974 defense was the best. The 1978 offense the best. 1975 team the best.

I think statistically the best team is the 1979 team, because they put up some big offensive numbers. They averaged almost two yards more per play than their opponents (5.8 to 4.1). But they had a ton of turnovers and were inconsistent throughout the year. That said, they took care of business in the postseason despite both Jack Ham and Mike Wagner being injured, which is impressive.

Dr. Z said the 74-75 Steelers were superior to the 78-79 Steelers, and I would tend to agree. I think what sets the Steelers apart from most other great teams is that they could play any style of football and still win. They are like the 70's A's teams to me...they didn't really have a singular standout season, but they were consistently good over several years and would always find a way to win.

One thing about the 75 Steelers is that Greene's injury affected their run defense. It was not nearly as good as the other Steel Curtain seasons. They allowed 1800+ yards at 4.2 per carry; OJ had a 200+ game, Mike Adamle had a 100+ game IIRC. Whenever I would run All-Time tournaments on my PC back in the day, the 75 Steelers would not do well because they would get gashed in the run game.

Agree about '75 run defense ... that is my reasoning as well for it not being as good a defense as others -- I'd rank the 1973 defense (and 76) above 1974, too.

I still think the 1978 team was better than the 1979 team ... but the 1979 offense ran the ball much better but both teams had weaknesses relative to each other but obviously both league's top team. The 1978 team just felt like they were going to win every game. Steelers of 79 started hot but a couple of their losses they got spanked.

But really,y you could flip a coin on those teams and not be wrong ... both best in NFL.

I asked Joe D about the 75 Steelers-Bills game -- cannot remember what they did but I don't think it was anything special, just execution, they were on, and Steelers were off. One of those cases where a great defense got pounded.

[Brian wolf]

I also believe the 75 Steelers were their best of the championship years. Bradshaw had a great year, beating the Vikings before taking the Steelers to back-to-back SB games as the Steelers were poised to beat a hot Dallas team in early 1976. Yes, the defense didn't stop the run as well but they were ready to shut down the Colts and Raiders before a dramatic ending to the SB. Bradshaw had justified his draft status and became a great QB, though the 76 season would also be another challenge.