Negro League stats

[Bryan]

MLB is now incorporating Negro League stats into its record book. This is also the league that has Barry Bonds not in its HOF but Harold Baines is in.

I am going to voice the politically-incorrect opinion that I find this to be absolute lunacy. There were seven different overlapping "Negro Leagues" from 1920 - 1948. Can't wait for King Corcoran to be put on some NFL leaderboard above Sonny Jurgensen.

[JWL]

I agree. I find this strange for a number of reasons. I don't have time now to get into my larger concern but I do have time for a lesser concern. I thought this was done already. The Negro League stats were added to Baseball Reference two years ago I thought or maybe it was last year.

Also, MLB doesn't have a true record book. What then exactly is this incorporating into the official record business? Maybe I am not understanding something correctly about this angle.

[SixtiesFan]

MLB is now incorporating Negro League stats into its record book. This is also the league that has Barry Bonds not in its HOF but Harold Baines is in.

I am going to voice the politically-incorrect opinion that I find this to be absolute lunacy. There were seven different overlapping "Negro Leagues" from 1920 - 1948. Can't wait for King Corcoran to be put on some NFL leaderboard above Sonny Jurgensen.

Agreed.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

As a fan, I appreciate having some access to what Josh Gibson, Stachel Paige, Buck O'Neil - what their statistics might have been and what their teams' overall stats were. It's difficult to gauge the accuracy of the records because the games weren't covered nearly as well by the media. It's not like one can find daily box scores in your average newspaper archive.

When Baseball Reference announced it a while back I immediately leapt for joy with the possibility of Henry Aaron being restored as HR king. Unfortunately, he only hit a handful of homers in the Negro Leagues.

As I first looked up the stats a while ago when I ordered a Strat O Matic set, I was surprised at how short the seasons were compared to MLB. I like the idea of comparing and compiling full career stats, but the single-season leaderboards are not well thought out, IMO because there were so many fewer games played in the Negro League seasons. That's just not a good comparison if you're weighing an average/on base percentage, etc with 600 ABS against a batter with 275.

I do really enjoy seeing the stats side-by-side, however. Before a few years ago, I could only imagine how many homers Josh Gibson hit, how many SBs Cool Papa Bell had, what Willie Wells' batting average was. It was all word of mouth. Having the stats more accessible and having the ability to compare players across leagues is a welcome thing for fans like me. IMO, it's really impossible to compare the MLB stats with the Negro League stats because of the season length difference, but it's also impossible to compare 1880s baseball to 1950s, pre-20s to 80s, etc. It's nice to have everything right there together though.

[Reaser]

I am going to voice the politically-incorrect opinion that I find this to be absolute lunacy. There were seven different overlapping "Negro Leagues" from 1920 - 1948. Can't wait for King Corcoran to be put on some NFL leaderboard above Sonny Jurgensen.

Yup, agreed.

[Bob Gill]

MLB is now incorporating Negro League stats into its record book. This is also the league that has Barry Bonds not in its HOF but Harold Baines is in.

I am going to voice the politically-incorrect opinion that I find this to be absolute lunacy. There were seven different overlapping "Negro Leagues" from 1920 - 1948. Can't wait for King Corcoran to be put on some NFL leaderboard above Sonny Jurgensen.

Not a valid comparison at all. Look, I'm a big advocate of the minor leagues, in all sports. But the top Negro League players have absolutely nothing in common with minor leaguers. King Corcoran was a minor league star because he was cut by NFL and/or AFL teams. Josh Gibson was in the Negro Leagues for only one reason: because the white leagues wouldn't let him in. Nobody, I mean nobody, ever suggested that he wouldn't have been one of the greatest players in the majors if given the chance.

I do think, though, as somebody else has mentioned, that the Negro League season records shouldn't be mixed in with the white majors, because the seasons were often much shorter. Hitting .420 in a 50-game season isn't at all the same thing as doing it in a 150-game season. Quite a few players -- not lately, but in baseball's not-so-distant past -- have hit over .400 for a couple of months, but only a handful managed to sustain that over a six-month season. So I think they should keep the season record-holders separate. But not because the best players were in any way inferior.

[Terry Baldshaw]

What MLB perpetrated by excluding black players from 1885-1946 was racism, pure and simple. I'm all in favor of recognizing the great players of the Negro Leagues. It is often said that pitchers such as Walter Johnson never had to face a Josh Gibson but it should be considered that Gibson never had to face Johnson.

One can't compare the Negro Leagues, which likely would have been a high minor league at that time, with the Major Leagues. The pool of black players of that time was small compared to the Majors. Record-keeping, the length of the season and other factors should be considered, as well.

To suddenly catapult players from an inferior league to the top of MLB records denigrates the achievements of the great players who faced the best game in and game out.

This is the equivalent of placing Ichiro Suzuki's total Japanese and American hits above those of Pete Rose.

These records are an apples and oranges comparison and while we now engage a society where the apple can identify as an orange it doesn't challenge my belief that this has cheapened many baseball records.

God bless all the players of the Negro Leagues. They were denied an opportunity to showcase their talents on the biggest stage. Unfortunately, capitulating to Wokeness and Inclusion is not the way to go.

*As a side note why doesn't the NFL recognize the AAFC, the NBA the ABA, the NHL the WHA?

[Bryan]

Not a valid comparison at all. Look, I'm a big advocate of the minor leagues, in all sports. But the top Negro League players have absolutely nothing in common with minor leaguers. King Corcoran was a minor league star because he was cut by NFL and/or AFL teams. Josh Gibson was in the Negro Leagues for only one reason: because the white leagues wouldn't let him in. Nobody, I mean nobody, ever suggested that he wouldn't have been one of the greatest players in the majors if given the chance.

That is a valid point. My comparison was too flippant.

[RichardBak]

Crazy times we live in.

[RyanChristiansen]

I don’t see anyone in this discussion saying that Otto Graham’s AAFC statistics shouldn’t be considered alongside his NFL statistics, but lots of folks are saying Negro League statistics shouldn’t be considered alongside MLB (separate American and National leagues, BTW) statistics.

Do we lump George Halas’ statistics from his time with the Hammond All-Stars of 1919 with his NFL statistics? Why not? I think the answer is obvious.

I think the real problem is worshipping statistics at all. They should only be part of the conversation.

That’s why I believe league statistics should never be combined across leagues. The fact that American and National league baseball statistics before interleague play have been combined gives false impressions about those statistics.