Tony Dungy VS Jimmy Johnson HOF

[Veeshik_ya]

Agree with everything you guys are saying...in hindsight.

Just constructive discussion here...if it's so clear, lets' forecast the studs five years from now in the upcoming draft. If we did that, we'd all end up looking like buffoons for most part.

[Hail Casares]

It would have been ridiculous if the Cowboys had passed on Aikman in 1989. The Colts selected Elway even knowing he didn't want to play for them. As things turned out, it was ridiculous for the Cowboys to select Steve Walsh after already having Aikman.

Part of me wonders if Johnson took Walsh in the draft with the intention of trading him later for more picks like he ended up doing. If that was the plan the entire time. QB's are obviously a valuable commodity in the NFL so while the rest of the league maybe rolled their eyes at what they thought was Johnson nepotism Johnson was a head of the curve a bit and intended to move Walsh for more picks to a team in need of a QB. Somewhat like what the Redskins could have done with Cousins after taking RGIII at the top of the draft and still taking Cousins later on.

[Hail Casares]

Agree with everything you guys are saying...in hindsight.

Just constructive discussion here...if it's so clear, lets' forecast the studs five years from now in the upcoming draft. If we did that, we'd all end up looking like buffoons for most part.

But it's not hindsight. Jamarcus Russell wasn't seen as a lock top pick int he draft after his 2004 season and definitely not after his 2005 season. The second the 1987 season started people were counting down the seconds until Aikman was draft available. We aren't discussing this in hindsight. We are telling you what people were saying in 1987 when they didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

[Bryan]

Agree with everything you guys are saying...in hindsight.

Just constructive discussion here...if it's so clear, lets' forecast the studs five years from now in the upcoming draft. If we did that, we'd all end up looking like buffoons for most part.

What I am saying about Aikman has nothing to do with forecasting and hindsight. It is about how he was perceived at the time of the 1989 NFL draft. I'll add that not only was Aikman one of the best QB prospects ever, he was also light years better than the #2 QB prospect (which I thought was Rodney Peete, but Mike Elkins ended up being the 2nd QB taken). 15 other QBs were drafted in 1989, and Aikman threw for more yards than the other 15 combined. Its not like Jimmy Johnson was choosing between Manning-Leaf or Luck-Griffin III.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree as to how much credit Johnson deserves for drafting Troy Aikman.

[Veeshik_ya]

But it's not hindsight. Jamarcus Russell wasn't seen as a lock top pick int he draft after his 2004 season and definitely not after his 2005 season. The second the 1987 season started people were counting down the seconds until Aikman was draft available. We aren't discussing this in hindsight. We are telling you what people were saying in 1987 when they didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

Ok, fair enough.

[Hail Casares]

Agree with everything you guys are saying...in hindsight.

Just constructive discussion here...if it's so clear, lets' forecast the studs five years from now in the upcoming draft. If we did that, we'd all end up looking like buffoons for most part.

What I am saying about Aikman has nothing to do with forecasting and hindsight. It is about how he was perceived at the time of the 1989 NFL draft. I'll add that not only was Aikman one of the best QB prospects ever, he was also light years better than the #2 QB prospect (which I thought was Rodney Peete, but Mike Elkins ended up being the 2nd QB taken). 15 other QBs were drafted in 1989, and Aikman threw for more yards than the other 15 combined. Its not like Jimmy Johnson was choosing between Manning-Leaf or Luck-Griffin III.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree as to how much credit Johnson deserves for drafting Troy Aikman.

And Elkins didn't even get drafted until the second round.

There was so little question about the Cowboys taking Aikman that Landry only needed to see him at one practice and Johnson commented upon first really seeing him that if Johnson had him at Miami they would have gone undefeated every year he played and won every game by 50 points.

[Veeshik_ya]

here was so little question about the Cowboys taking Aikman that Landry only needed to see him at one practice and Johnson commented upon first really seeing him that if Johnson had him at Miami they would have gone undefeated every year he played and won every game by 50 points.

That's now an ironic comment by Johnson considering he and Aikman had a rough start together their first year. Johnson doubted whether Aikman could get it done after a rough rookie year. Aikman doubted whether collegiate coach Johnson knew how to be successful in the NFL. They both admit this today.

[Hail Casares]

Just looked up Mike Elkins. He played in one game and threw two career passes for 5 yards and an interception.

[Bryan]

Just looked up Mike Elkins. He played in one game and threw two career passes for 5 yards and an interception.

I remember in the Prolog magazine issued after the 1987 season, they had a big article profiling all of the different college QBs that would be available in the next two years...comparing those classes to the 1983 QB class. Troy Aikman was the clear stud, but they had high hopes for about 12 other guys. Its interesting looking back and realizing how inexact/ridiculous NFL scouting was, because through YouTube you can actually watch these guys in college. I'm trying to remember some of guys they profiled:

Rodney Peete - ended up having a decent NFL career as a backup, was the clear #2 behind Aikman

Mike Elkins - don't know why he was drafted so high...was kind of like Chase Daniel if Daniel had an average NCAA career at Wake Forest

Terrance Jones - dual threat at Tulane, drafted but went to the CFL and flamed out

Todd Ellis - saw footage of him on YouTube. I'm about the same size as Ellis, and he was terrible in the games I saw. Started for awhile at South Carolina. Don't think he played in the NFL.

Tommy Hodson - remember him well at LSU. Similar to Ellis, the guy had a weak arm and not much athleticism. I remember a scout being quoted "Hodson might be the best QB LSU ever produced, and I am including YA Tittle and Bert Jones." Hodson was nowhere near those two guys in terms of physical ability, and if you aren't including them on your LSU llist, its not much of a statement.

Chip Ferguson - at the time was a backup at FSU to Danny McManus, so kind of weird that he was listed. Ferguson was short and slow, and while McManus was great in college, Ferguson was kind of blah. Ended up on the Vikings, but was cut in preseason.

Scooter Mollander - a JUCO transfer to Colorado State, I have no idea how he made the list. Average college career at small school, not even a blip on the NFL radar.

Jeff Francis - big guy at Tennessee who looked the part...had a cup of coffee with the Browns.

Erik Wilhelm - Oregon State grad who ended up being one of the most successful QBs of the group. Spent many years as Esiason's backup with the Bengals.

Chuck Hartlieb - played against his younger brothers in high school, he was really good at Iowa but about 5-10 with a noodle arm. Didn't stick in the NFL.

Dave Schnell - made a name at Indiana by beating both Michigan and Ohio State, but I don't even know if he was a UFA in the NFL.

Of all the QBs they listed, the two biggest QBs of those two classes (other than Aikman) ended up being Jeff George and Andre Ware...neither of whom was on the collective QB scene after the 1987 season.

[Gary Najman]

Hodson played with the Patriots for three years, and I remember he only won one gqme he started.