Tony Dungy VS Jimmy Johnson HOF

[74_75_78_79_]

If you had to pick just one, who would it be and why?

[JohnTurney]

I would lean Dungy if choosing between the two, but his candidacy has a couple issues.


I would put Dungy on the level of Siefert, who gets no love. But their records are similar.

Dungy 148-79 for a .652 percentage . . . 1 Super Bowl win
Siefert 124-67 for a .649 percentage 2 Super Bowl wins

Gruden did take Dungy's team to SB win, but Dungy kind of took Mora's tean to Super Bowl win .. .

Innovations" Dungy is credited with tinkering with Carson's cover-2, but there is some debate in the committee as to where Dungy got some of those things, Some think Kiffen taught Dungy when both were in Minny.

Siefert was a good DC before he became head coach, the so-called elephant spot for Haley . . . but not sure how much of an innovation it was. It was a 3-4 defense that had one OLB with a hand in the dirt much of the time, a one-gap type 3-4 . . .

Now, my question is either Siefert or Dungy worthy? well . .. no, IMO.

Theer are only 25 coaches with more than 1 championship, Johnson is one of those and Switzer gravy-trained his SB off of Johnson's team.

[Veeshik_ya]

Dungy is deserving, but it's Johnson in a landslide (he'll never get in, though).

Find me a coach who did what Johnson did in five short years:
- First time pro coach
- Taking over the league cellar dweller
- Starting with rookie QB
- Acting as de facto GM
- Not to mention main talent spotter
- Definitively changed how NFL front offices approach the draft
- All in new, uncharted salary cap era
- Capped off tenure with two SB titles back to back
- Great game day coach
- Lombardi school motivator, power and execution

You'll find coaches who have done these things, but few who've done them all, and fewer if any who did it in five years

[Gary Najman]

Something I think that's good for Dungy's resumé is that he was as a player the leader in interceptions for a Super Bowl winning team.

[Jeremy Crowhurst]

And let's not forget how JJ took the Dolphins from 9-7 to 9-7 in just four short years. If that doesn't scream "HALL OF FAME COACH" then I don't know what does.

[Reaser]

It was always funny on the old forums how often and how many people would say Johnson's time in Miami was a complete failure, and they'd talk as if his teams went 4-12 every year ...

Took over a team with salary cap issues, an aging QB on his last legs and a defense that wasn't good. Coached in a division that in his 4-years would be (arguably) the best and most competitive division in the NFL. Never had a losing record, went to the playoffs 3 of 4 years which the Dolphins have been to the playoffs 3 times in the 15 years post-Johnson with 2 of those 3 coming in the immediate two years after Johnson left - both times making the playoffs largely on the back on the defense that Johnson built. His draft picks, his players, he put together one of the top defenses in the league (Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, etc). Won playoff games in two of his four years.

Compared to winning the Super Bowl, it was a 'failure' in that currently 31 of 32 HC's fail every year - and if that was what people were saying (it's not) I would have no problem with it since I believe a coaches only job is to win, and win championship(s). ... but no one is saying Jason Garrett was massive failure in 2014. Somehow that standard seemingly applies more (or only) to Johnson's time in Miami than to any other coach. It's weird. There's the narrative then there's what actually happened. Took over an aging team over the salary cap that needed to be retooled, if not rebuilt, and went to the playoffs 3 straight years. Terrible?

All in addition to the great success with Dallas.

His Miami years weren't George Seifert in Carolina, Mike Shanahan in Washington or Tom Flores in Seattle. Was even better than Joe Gibbs 2nd stint in Washington and Bill Parcells Cowboys years. You all can put together why I chose those coaches with those teams as comparable to Johnson in Miami.

[bachslunch]

I would lean Dungy if choosing between the two, but his candidacy has a couple issues.


I would put Dungy on the level of Siefert, who gets no love. But their records are similar.

Dungy 148-79 for a .652 percentage . . . 1 Super Bowl win
Siefert 124-67 for a .649 percentage 2 Super Bowl wins

Gruden did take Dungy's team to SB win, but Dungy kind of took Mora's tean to Super Bowl win .. .

Innovations" Dungy is credited with tinkering with Carson's cover-2, but there is some debate in the committee as to where Dungy got some of those things, Some think Kiffen taught Dungy when both were in Minny.

Siefert was a good DC before he became head coach, the so-called elephant spot for Haley . . . but not sure how much of an innovation it was. It was a 3-4 defense that had one OLB with a hand in the dirt much of the time, a one-gap type 3-4 . . .

Now, my question is either Siefert or Dungy worthy? well . .. no, IMO.

Theer are only 25 coaches with more than 1 championship, Johnson is one of those and Switzer gravy-trained his SB off of Johnson's team.

Dungy has a good bit of successful assistant coaching under his belt. He also has 36 more games coached than Seifert, about two seasons worth. Being the first successful coach of color will definitely be seen as a huge plus.

Question: how different are the Tampa-2 and Cover-2? Are the changes modest or more substantial?

[rhickok1109]

Dungy has a good bit of successful assistant coaching under his belt. He also has 36 more games coached than Seifert, about two seasons worth. Being the first successful coach of color will definitely be seen as a huge plus.

Question: how different are the Tampa-2 and Cover-2? Are the changes modest or more substantial?

The only real difference is that the MLB takes a very deep drop in the Tampa-2 and becomes, in effect, a third safety in the middle of the field. Of course, he's not likely to have the speed or cover skills of a real safety, so it's not quite a Cover-3, but it does give the two safeties less ground to cover.

[Veeshik_ya]

And let's not forget how JJ took the Dolphins from 9-7 to 9-7 in just four short years. If that doesn't scream "HALL OF FAME COACH" then I don't know what does.

Good point. Assuming you'll lead the charge to remove Don Shula from the Hall of Fame since he went 8-8, 8-7, 6-10, and 8-8 with the Dolphins from 1986-1989?

And Chuck Noll, since he didn't win more than 9 games his last eight years in the league?

[Veeshik_ya]

It was always funny on the old forums how often and how many people would say Johnson's time in Miami was a complete failure, and they'd talk as if his teams went 4-12 every year ...

No doubt. Johnson's work with the Dolphins is underrated.

First of all, he won. Most coaches don't. So there's that.

Second, he came on board when Dan Marino's legs were more brittle than a rubber band soaked in salt water and dried in a kiln oven.

Third, proving his eye for talent in Dallas was no fluke, he built a defense in Miami that was was effective long after he left.

And finally, holding his lack of SB title in Miami against him is a disingenuous argument, because last time I checked no coach has won a SB title with more than one team (Weeb Ewbank, you have our respect!).