PFHOF Semifinalists

[Hail Casares]

Ok, so my 15 name from that list:

Steve Atwater
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Jimmy Johnson
John Lynch
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner

[Bryan]

YPC can be overrated. Bill Parcells loved running the ball when his team had a lead (a lot of predictable clock grinding simple run plays in 4th quarters of games). Ottis Anderson was effective with a YPC in the low 3s. If Martin was used more judiciously maybe his average would be 4.3. Who knows? Stats can tell you things that are true. Stats can also mislead and lie.

Martin looked excellent to me. I have him on the tier below the obvious, no-brainer Hall members (includes Brown, Simpson, Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, Motley, Dickerson, Van Buren etc.). Martin is on the Okay, he's a solid member but it is fair to listen to an argument against him tier.

I am aware John Henry Johnson was a fullback. He was still a running back. I was not comparing Martin to Jan Stenerud or Billy Shaw. Johnson was a tremendous blocker and maybe the best of all-time at his position. it took him a good spell to get inducted, however. He was not a slam dunk candidate.

I don't know if running the ball to simply kill the clock is the hallmark of a HOF RB. Martin's YPC is what it is. I don't know how saying Martin's YPC is 4.0 is a lie. Its not like he did irreparable harm to his career YPC by hanging around 5 years after his skills diminished. In his prime, Martin's YPC was about 4.0. Two of his pro bowl years saw Martin average 3.6 and 3.5 YPC. He had a game against KC where he ran the ball 30 times for 42 yards. Martin's assets were his durability, consistency, and abilty to hang on to the football. He wasn't a big-play guy. You mentioned that you consider Martin as a solid HOFer but it is fair to listen to an argument against him...my thinking is the opposite...what is the argument FOR Martin being a HOFer? There isn't anything that stands out on his resume nor is there anything distinctive about his career, IMO.

I agree that JH Johnson was not a slam dunk candidate because when he retired he was the 4th leading rusher in history, just like Martin....which goes back to my original point regarding my head-scratching over Martin's near-immediate induction. Not that this means anything, but Johnson had two 1000-yard seasons after he turned 33, and Curtis Martin retired before he turned 33.

[King Kong]

I don't care to argue, so I will agree Martin sucked and walk away.

[rhickok1109]

Walker's statistics are pretty good if you look at yards from scrimmage. Remember that he was sometimes a running back and sometimes a flanker, and he consistently accounted for 800 to 900 yards from scrimmage in 12-game seasons. He averaged 4.9 YPC rushing and 16.7 yards as a receiver, in addition to kicking, occasionally playing defense, and sometimes returning punts and kickoffs.

As a Packer fan, I can testify that Walker was the one Detroit player who was really scary

[oldecapecod11]

rhickok1109 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:12 pm
"... As a Packer fan, I can testify that Walker was the one Detroit player who was really scary."

An indication of how good he was is who played behind him at SMU.

When Walker was hurt, his replacement practically set the stadium on fire and nobody had to ask
why he wasn't playing.
The guy took over at tailback for injured starter Doak Walker in the final game of 1949 playing
undefeated Notre Dame and against the Irish ran for 115 yards, passed for 146 yards,
punted for a 48-yard average and scored all three of SMU's touchdowns in a 27-20 loss.
The Texas Sportswriters Association later voted that performance as the finest by a Texas athlete
in the first half of the century. His name? Kyle Rote.

As a Giants fan, I was always glad the Lions were in that "other" division - because of the Doaker
(and a few other guys too.)

[Ronfitch]

I agree that JH Johnson was not a slam dunk candidate because when he retired he was the 4th leading rusher in history, just like Martin....which goes back to my original point regarding my head-scratching over Martin's near-immediate induction. Not that this means anything, but Johnson had two 1000-yard seasons after he turned 33, and Curtis Martin retired before he turned 33.

Fourteen-game seasons when JHJ got those 1,000 yard seasons, too. I did not realize he played on squads with so many losing seasons (the NFL championship with the Lions stands out, but I suspect he is a big part of the reason that Pittsburgh had some winning in the early-/mid-'60s, which I would guess stood out for that franchise prior to the Knoll teams of the '70s).

What happened to him for the '65 season? Five strong rushing seasons as a Steeler, coming off a 1,000-yard season in '64 ... then just one game in '65.

[DukeSlater]

I was ecstatic to see Kenn on here. I have been complaining about him not being considered for years.

Kenn, IIRC, got screwed in 1991, by not making the Pro Bowl, but he was a first team All-Pro.

Darren Woodson, IMO, has absolutely no business being ahead of Atwater, Lynch, Joey Browner, Easley, Patton, Johnny Robinson, Bobby Dillon, Deron Cherry, Shell, Cliff Harris, Tatum, Dennis Smith, Tim McDonald, etc. He was a great player, but he is getting extra credit for being on those great Dallas teams. I think Jake Scott and Dick Anderson have as good a case as DW.

[King Kong]

Well, because I have a moment... (This new forum is very problematic. I usually cannot access it via my phone. I do not have this problem with any other site. I may not post often until this issue gets fixed.)



Look at Martin's statistics. Do you find it interesting that his Parcells' years, particularly 1996 and 1998, brought his career average per carry figure down? Those were arguably the best two teams for which he played. Hmmm. Hmmm.

(His injury-ruined season of 2005 also brought his career average down but most backs have a season like that at the end of their career.)

[Bryan]

What happened to him for the '65 season? Five strong rushing seasons as a Steeler, coming off a 1,000-yard season in '64 ... then just one game in '65.

He injured his knee in the 1965 opener against the Packers and was lost for the season. Prior to the 1966 season, he demanded more money from the Steelers, who promptly released him. The Oilers picked up Johnson, but he wasn't the same runner he used to be prior to injury.

[Bryan]

Well, because I have a moment... (This new forum is very problematic. I usually cannot access it via my phone. I do not have this problem with any other site. I may not post often until this issue gets fixed.)



Look at Martin's statistics. Do you find it interesting that his Parcells' years, particularly 1996 and 1998, brought his career average per carry figure down? Those were arguably the best two teams for which he played. Hmmm. Hmmm.

(His injury-ruined season of 2005 also brought his career average down but most backs have a season like that at the end of their career.)

I assume this is directed at me. First, I share your phone-access frustration...I have about a 25% success rate of accessing the forum via my phone. Second, I agree with your analysis of Martin. Parcells used Martin to eat up clock, which affected his YPC. Is "eating up clock" indicative of a HOF RB?