HOF Class of 2018 Named

Rupert Patrick · Post by **Rupert Patrick** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:03 pm

Owens, Moss, Urlacher, Lewis, Dawkins, Kramer, Brazile, and Bobby Beathard. No big surprises.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2231 ... n-urlacher

JuggernautJ · Post by **JuggernautJ** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:20 pm

I am overjoyed Jerry Kramer finally got "the call to the Hall."
And Robert Brazile, too.

sheajets · Post by **sheajets** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:33 pm

Kevin Mawae deserved to get in

Can't argue with any that did get in though. All deserving

JohnH19 · Post by **JohnH19** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:31 am

I'm thrilled for Jerry Kramer and I'm glad that Moss and/or Owens didn't get screwed by a bogus quota on how many players at the same position can be elected in the same year.

JohnTurney · Post by **JohnTurney** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:37 am

JohnH19 wrote:I'm thrilled for Jerry Kramer and I'm glad that Moss and/or Owens didn't get screwed by a bogus quota on how many players at the same position can be elected in the same year.

Not a bogus quota, it was something that sometimes happens to avoid screwing worthy players by giving preference to skill positions. With Moss getting in on the first ballot the bar is lowered yet again. He was the most talented receiver ever, in my opinion, and was a highlight reel player. But he dogged it too much to be a first ballot HOFer. Even he admits he didn't always give full effort and that is not the stuff of the best of the best. In a 15-year career, he makes All-Pro just four times and there were no seasons that you could say he got screwed. Just 6 Pro Bowls. For a guy with all that talent, those are just so-so honors.

While he had some great things, like TO did some great things, on balance, it's my view that he does not meet the Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Lance Alworth, etc first-ballot standards.

This bogus "he got Mossed" segment, his work in the media to soften his image paid off. If he had not worked in television he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt like he did.

So, as with Jackie Slater, Jason Taylor, even Steve Young to a degree, Urlacher and TO have all lowered the 1st ballot standard to the point now, where there is no reason to even consider it anymore. It used to be a "something extra" to denote special careers like Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Dick Butkus, Reggie White, Bruce Smith.

Now, it is ordinary, even common, at least more common than it used to be. And that old trope of "either a guy is a HOFer or he isn't" is coming true. And to think Alan Page had to wait a year for losing a Super Bowls. At least he got there...and yes I am aware he didn't play well in all of them. But Urlacher and his defense gave up how many rushing yards?

I agree with some of the comments in the HOF portion of the forum. When you have Ray Lewis and Urlacher the same year and the same honor is bestowed on both of them when there is such a gulf in their resumes is just wrong. One guy wins 2 Def MVPs, another guy wins one. One guy wins 2 Super Bowls another loses one. One guy is 8-time All-Pro, another is 4. One guy is 13 time Pro Bowler, the other is 8. The stats, Lewis may be the last LBer ever to pick 30 passes yet it is Urlacher that gets the ink for his coverages.

So while my opinion is not at all the final say, and I respect yours, Moss as a first-ballot HOFer, under the old rules when it meant something, is really misguided. Now we will have to hear this kind of thing, "But now, Moss will always be able to back up his claim of "I'm the best wide receiver in NFL history" NFL.com, Jan. 29, 2013 and "I call myself the greatest" Minneapolis Star Tribune, Feb 2, 2018.

Yeah, he was the best, when he actually gave it some effort. And add to that his complaint that he didn't have "Steve Young and Joe Montana" throwing to him like Jerry Rice did.

From 1998-2004 the passer rating for the Vikings was 92.4, or something like it, #1 in the NFL. From 2007-2009 with Patriots, it was well over 100, the best in the NFL. So, for 10 years he had top-notch QBing. Certainly, he was a part of both, just as Rice was part of making Montana and Young so good, a true symbiotic relationship, it's not like he didn't have good support. He had Cris Carter and Welker opposite him, the Vikings had a good line and running game and Pats had a good line.

So Moss gets a gift and is a first-balloter, but it's a joke.
Said Vito Stellino, "Moss and Owens are perfect for era of divas who have flash and dash and style over substance. Both caught a lot of passes in era when rules were changed to make it easy to catch lot of passes. Neither ever caught a pass to win a ring and tended to wear out their welcome."

sluggermatt15 · Post by **sluggermatt15** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:30 pm

Congrats to the electees! I too agree each member elected deserved to be in the HoF.

@JohnTurney - At the end of the day, does it really matter if an exceptional player is a first-ballot electee or is elected a year or two later? They are in the HoF.

James · Post by **James** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:37 pm

I am so glad that Jerry Kramer and Robert Brazille got in. Terrell Owens,to me anyway, is not a Hall of Fame player. HoVG to me is Owens. No problem with Moss going in, but I think Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson are all way superior to what Owens was. That's my two cents...

JohnTurney · Post by **JohnTurney** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:50 pm

sluggermatt15 wrote:Congrats to the electees! I too agree each member elected deserved to be in the HoF.

@JohnTurney - At the end of the day, does it really matter if an exceptional player is a first-ballot electee or is elected a year or two later? They are in the HoF.

Answer: It used to matter. The "First-ballot HOF" descriptor will be used forever. And it has traditionally been applied to the best of the best. When you read books, magazines, online articles, watch a "30 for 30" or "America's Game" those who got in on the first try get the title, as it were, of "First-ballot Hall of Fame". Just Google it and see the results.

So, if players get that honor that are questionable it loses meaning. The only caveot is there are some voters, for example, and others, but let's focus on voters who likely truly think Moss or Urlacher or Jason Taylor or Jackie Slater are first-ballot players. But they never will debate because they got what they wanted, they are lifelong buddies with the player and would never bother to debate lowlifes like members of the PFRA.

So, yes, it used to matter to me. And it used to matter to those who earned it. But if everyone gets it, it means less.

Terry Baldshaw · Post by **Terry Baldshaw** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:44 pm

Congratulations to the HOF for lowering its standards to admit two clowns like Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

JohnTurney · Post by **JohnTurney** » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:14 pm

Terry Baldshaw wrote:Congratulations to the HOF for lowering its standards to admit two clowns like Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

Here I have to disagree. Look, your opinion is every bit as valid as mine...and I respect yours and everyone's opinion that may be different than mine. TOs and Moss's body of work, in my opinion, are both Hall of Fame worthy.

But, Moss getting in first try puts his accomplishments on the same level as Rice, Hutson, Alworth, Warfield, etc. And in my opinion his lack of effort taints his accomplishments, i.e. someone with his talents should have been able to be All-Pro more than 4 times, etc . . .so my personal beef is the timing, not the getting in

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