George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

BD Sullivan
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by BD Sullivan »

Retro Rider wrote:This is an interesting interview with George Allen from 1980. Among topics, he mentions having interest in the CFL:

https://youtu.be/3zk1y9c2oj0
Allen was supposed to buy the Montreal Alouettes in 1982, but backed out when the owner (Nelson Skalbania) turned out to be a BS artist/fraud. From there, he moved onto the USFL.
SixtiesFan
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by SixtiesFan »

George Allen was one of the coaches who thought he could handle "problem players." In 1973 Allen gave up a 1975 No. 1 draft choice and a 1976 No. 2 for Duane Thomas. He hadn't played at all for the Chargers in 1972 and hardly played in 1973 for the Redskins. Thomas played more in 1974. On Thanksgiving Day he scored the go-ahead TD against the Cowboys. Clint Longley then threw the famous last-second game winner to Drew Pearson.

Thomas was cut the next year, faded away. Allen coveted Thomas, but what writer Tom Dowling called in Sport magazine, his "worry wart" side wouldn't play him.
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Bryan
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Bryan »

I always found it interesting what veteran players Allen would bring in for his defense. I've been watching a lot of 1977/78 Redskin games and its surprising to me how good the defense still was. The Redskins were really good from 1975 - first half of 1978, they just had some pretty bad luck. The defense was an odd assortment of guys from the Super Bowl team, veterans acquired, and younger players. The 1978 (albeit under Jack Pardee) had a DL of Coy Bacon, Diron Talbert, Dave Butz & Ron McDole...kind of crazy. Mike Curtis and Chris Hanburger played together as OLBs. At one point, the Skins secondary was Joe Lavendar, Lemar Parrish, Jake Scott & Ken Houston. That's a tremendous group of players. As late as 1977, Allen still had Pat Fischer, Charley Taylor, Brig Owens, Len Hauss & Jerry Smith. Its like that 1972 Redskin roster played forever.

The Redskin offense was pretty dull. Allen's Redskins would have been much better if Jurgensen was younger/wasn't injured half the time, and if Joe Thieismann was better when he was young. I think those two things kind of forced Allen to play Billy Kilmer. Theismann wasn't impressive at all on film in those years; he'd make some terrible decisions. The one thing that made no sense is that the Redskins didn't have a lot of firepower at the skill positions, and their one difference maker was John Riggins, yet he was never really a featured RB in that time period.
Brian wolf
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Brian wolf »

Many people feel Theismann developed into a HOVG caliber QB under Gibbs. Had Allen moved on from Kilmer-Jurgensen after their 74' playoff loss and handed the keys to Injun Joe, could he have developed quicker and been better by the time Allen left?
Bob Gill
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Bob Gill »

Brian wolf wrote:Many people feel Theismann developed into a HOVG caliber QB under Gibbs.
I think they're wrong. Theismann became a quality quarterback in 1979, when Jack Pardee was the head coach and Joe Walton was quarterback coach.

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Theismann had never completed 50 percent of his passes in a season through 1978, but then in '79 his completion percentage jumped to 57 percent or thereabouts, where it stayed for the rest of his career. His other stats improved to a similar degree. If you look him up, I think you'll find that his six best passer ratings came in the six seasons from 1979 to '84. And 1979 was year he turned the corner.
JohnH19
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by JohnH19 »

Brian wolf wrote:Many people feel Theismann developed into a HOVG caliber QB under Gibbs. Had Allen moved on from Kilmer-Jurgensen after their 74' playoff loss and handed the keys to Injun Joe, could he have developed quicker and been better by the time Allen left?
Injun Joe was Joe Kapp’s nickname.

Theismann could have played almost immediately after joining Washington but Jurgensen was still there in ‘74 (led the NFC in passer rating) and Kilmer was still effective. Joe had three seasons in the CFL (injured for almost all of ‘72) so he was no raw rookie. George loved his vets so he stuck with Billy as much as possible but Theismann did play a substantial amount in ‘76 and ‘77.
Brian wolf
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Brian wolf »

Haha ... I know about Kapp but I thought Theismanns' face looked similar to the Indian on the helmet logo ... without the dark color of course. Yeah, despite scoring only 10 points in the 1974 playoff loss against a tough Rams defense, Allen wasnt going to go with youth and Theismann ...
Lee Elder
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Lee Elder »

7DnBrnc53 wrote:I was watching the History of the Redskins on You Tube recently. During the part about George Allen, people like John Riggins were saying that Allen didn't want to win with all three phases of the game, basically (he didn't care about offense). To the people of this board, is that your take, or is it something else?
This is not accurate. Allen's offenses produced better than is remembered today. I covered this in my book on Allen.

Jurgensen missed most of the 1972 season and was frequently hurt during Allen's time. Allen allowed his QBs to call their own plays but he wanted the play calling to be within the parameters of the game plan. Jurgensen frequently ignored the game plan. Kilmer didn't get hurt, made fewer mistakes and followed the game plan. Theismann was a different basket of problems. He didn't follow the PRACTICE plan. As a head coach, who are you going to put your faith in?

You could win a bar bet with this one: Who is the only starting quarterback to ever win a playoff game for George Allen in the NFL? Billy Kilmer.
Brian wolf
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Brian wolf »

What is your take on Allen and Gabriel, Lee ?
Did Allen have misgivings about Gabriel jumping to the AFL before the 66 season or didnt care since Gabriel hadnt established himself as a starter yet? Did he want him back or was that strictly Reeve's call? Did he truly believe in him enough to make him starter or was that Reeves again? Did either start Gabriel to stick it to the Raiders ?
Jay Z
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Re: George Allen's Legacy as Redskin HC

Post by Jay Z »

Lee Elder wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:I was watching the History of the Redskins on You Tube recently. During the part about George Allen, people like John Riggins were saying that Allen didn't want to win with all three phases of the game, basically (he didn't care about offense). To the people of this board, is that your take, or is it something else?
This is not accurate. Allen's offenses produced better than is remembered today. I covered this in my book on Allen.

Jurgensen missed most of the 1972 season and was frequently hurt during Allen's time. Allen allowed his QBs to call their own plays but he wanted the play calling to be within the parameters of the game plan. Jurgensen frequently ignored the game plan. Kilmer didn't get hurt, made fewer mistakes and followed the game plan. Theismann was a different basket of problems. He didn't follow the PRACTICE plan. As a head coach, who are you going to put your faith in?

You could win a bar bet with this one: Who is the only starting quarterback to ever win a playoff game for George Allen in the NFL? Billy Kilmer.
This is true, however, Allen's defenses performed better than his offenses nearly every year. With the Redskins this was a reversal of the years prior when the offense led the way.

Allen was a defensive coach, but his defenses didn't always perform that well in the playoffs. They did in 1972 and 1974, but other years they struggled. Why do you think that's so?
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