The Death of NFL Dynasties

lastcat3
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:47 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by lastcat3 »

Though it's pretty clear what caused the '90's Dallas Dynasty to unravel I do think they would have had an excellent shot at winning four in a row if they had simply retained Ken Norton Jr. If Ken Norton Jr is with the Cowboys in '94 I don't think San Francisco beats them regardless if they had Deion Sanders or not. Dallas definitely didn't need Norton (as they had a very deep group of linebackers at the time) but him going to the 49ers definitely hurt as he was able to slow down Emmitt Smith. Of course we can say the same thing about Charles Haley.

It's funny the person who is kind of the poster child for the Dallas/San Francisco arms race of the '90's (Deion Sanders) may have had the least amount of impact on the actual roster. Charles Haley and Ken Norton Jr had a much bigger impact on the field than Sanders did when the two teams faced off.
7DnBrnc53
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

lastcat3 wrote:Though it's pretty clear what caused the '90's Dallas Dynasty to unravel I do think they would have had an excellent shot at winning four in a row if they had simply retained Ken Norton Jr. If Ken Norton Jr is with the Cowboys in '94 I don't think San Francisco beats them regardless if they had Deion Sanders or not. Dallas definitely didn't need Norton (as they had a very deep group of linebackers at the time) but him going to the 49ers definitely hurt as he was able to slow down Emmitt Smith. Of course we can say the same thing about Charles Haley.

It's funny the person who is kind of the poster child for the Dallas/San Francisco arms race of the '90's (Deion Sanders) may have had the least amount of impact on the actual roster. Charles Haley and Ken Norton Jr had a much bigger impact on the field than Sanders did when the two teams faced off.
I don't think that Ken Norton, Jr. was that great. The moment that signaled the official end of the 90's Cowboys was on Draft Day 1998. When they passed on Randy Moss, they passed on a player that was dynamic enough to revive the dying Triplets era. Also, losing Haley and Novacek didn't help, either.
7DnBrnc53
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

Steelers dynasty ended in the 1979 offseason when Chuck Noll elected to cut Dwaine Board and instead retain Dwight White. Too much reliance on aging vets kind of ended things rather abruptly in 1980.
Well, you can go back to 76, when they chose Jimmy Allen over their 75 first-rounder, Dave Brown (to put up for expansion). Then, after they had three solid drafts in a row from 76-78, their 79 draft wasn't that great (and the Board mishap was part of that).

The official end of that group, though, was the 82 WC loss to San Diego. I know that they made the 84 AFC Title game, but most of those players were gone, and that was a BS team that had no business making the playoffs (if the Browns had Sipe that year, the Steelers don't win the Central).
Terry Baldshaw
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by Terry Baldshaw »

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
Steelers dynasty ended in the 1979 offseason when Chuck Noll elected to cut Dwaine Board and instead retain Dwight White. Too much reliance on aging vets kind of ended things rather abruptly in 1980.
Well, you can go back to 76, when they chose Jimmy Allen over their 75 first-rounder, Dave Brown (to put up for expansion). Then, after they had three solid drafts in a row from 76-78, their 79 draft wasn't that great (and the Board mishap was part of that).

The official end of that group, though, was the 82 WC loss to San Diego. I know that they made the 84 AFC Title game, but most of those players were gone, and that was a BS team that had no business making the playoffs (if the Browns had Sipe that year, the Steelers don't win the Central).

Originally, I had decided to choose that Charger playoff game. It was a terrible loss, as I experienced in person. I decided to go with Bradshaw's last game. An excellent choice on your part, though.
Brian wolf
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by Brian wolf »

Good call on the Steelers guys ... though I mentioned the 80 and 81 squads, that 82/83 playoff loss to the Chargers was their last chance because Stoudt wasnt strong enough ... If only they had taken that kid down the road in the draft ...

Had the Browns beaten the Oilers before the Steeler game in 1983, would have been a great regular season finale for Sipe's last chance at a division title but with their loss in Houston and Bradshaw beating the Jets, the Steelers get to be cannon fodder for the Raiders in the playoffs.

You have to give Noll and the Steelers credit for beating an Elway-led Bronco team that should have played Miami in the Championship game in 84/85 but it seemed that the Steelers needed to get their second butt whipping by Marino and the Dolphins for passing him in the draft ...
7DnBrnc53
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by 7DnBrnc53 »

Originally, I had decided to choose that Charger playoff game. It was a terrible loss, as I experienced in person. I decided to go with Bradshaw's last game. An excellent choice on your part, though.
Bradshaw made a mistake when he chose to come back late that year. If he would have shelved it until 1984, maybe he plays a few more years. It's hard to say.

I was looking at old issues of the Sporting News, and they said that he was trying to come back in the spring of 1984, anyway.
Some Guy From Mars
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:45 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by Some Guy From Mars »

The denouement of the Steeler dynasty occurred with Terry Bradshaw's last pass, a touchdown against the New York Jets in 1983. Bradshaw's elbow was shot and he retired after the season.
In my opinion the Steelers dynasty started to unravel on October 20, 1980 when the vaunted Steel Curtain defense gave up 45 points to eventual Super Bowl champions Oakland Raiders. The game pinpointed many of the problems that would plague the Steelers throughout the year, particularly injuries to offense (Franco Harris, Lynn Swann & John Stallworth missed the game due to injury, while Bradshaw had to leave the game as well) and lack of pass rush (I recall Jim Plunkett having all of the time in the world to throw in tossing three long touchdown passes to Cliff Branch & Morris Bradshaw).

IF the Steelers had kept DE Dwaine Board, how much difference would it have made? Steelers lost a lot of close games in 1980. Would the presence of Board have been enough for Pittsburgh to win one or two of those games and take the Division title?
Last edited by Some Guy From Mars on Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Brian wolf
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:43 am

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by Brian wolf »

Hindsight is always 20/20 but if Board was starting and healthy, maybe his pass rush could have been a difference against Ferguson and Snake in late season losses ? Then the finale against Air Coryell would have had more significance ...
User avatar
Bryan
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:37 am

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by Bryan »

Some Guy From Mars wrote:In my opinion the Steelers dynasty started to unravel on October 20, 1980 when the vaunted Steel Curtain defense gave up 45 points to eventual Super Bowl champions Oakland Raiders. The game pinpointed many of the problems that would plague the Steelers throughout the year, particularly injuries to offense (Franco Harris, Lynn Swann & John Stallworth missed the game due to injury, while Bradshaw had to leave the game as well) and lack of pass rush (I recall Jim Plunkett having all of the time in the world to throw in tossing three long touchdown passes to Cliff Branch & Morris Bradshaw).

IF the Steelers had kept DE Dwaine Board, how much difference would it have made? Steelers lost a lot of close games in 1980. Would the presence of Board have been enough for Pittsburgh to win one or two of those games and take the Division title?
I agree with your timeframe of the Steeler dynasty ending. I don't view the 1982 Steelers as an extension of the Steeler dynasty; that team was inconsistent and got blanked by the Seattle Seahawks. I can't imagine those 70's teams getting shutout by the Seahawks. The Steelers started the 1980 season well enough, but they lost two early games to the woeful Bengals and then the MNF Raiders game happened and the Steelers never returned to dominance. As you said, the pass rush was anemic, and Plunkett kind of had a coming out party in that Steelers game.
User avatar
74_75_78_79_
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:25 pm

Re: The Death of NFL Dynasties

Post by 74_75_78_79_ »

Bryan wrote:
Some Guy From Mars wrote:In my opinion the Steelers dynasty started to unravel on October 20, 1980 when the vaunted Steel Curtain defense gave up 45 points to eventual Super Bowl champions Oakland Raiders. The game pinpointed many of the problems that would plague the Steelers throughout the year, particularly injuries to offense (Franco Harris, Lynn Swann & John Stallworth missed the game due to injury, while Bradshaw had to leave the game as well) and lack of pass rush (I recall Jim Plunkett having all of the time in the world to throw in tossing three long touchdown passes to Cliff Branch & Morris Bradshaw).

IF the Steelers had kept DE Dwaine Board, how much difference would it have made? Steelers lost a lot of close games in 1980. Would the presence of Board have been enough for Pittsburgh to win one or two of those games and take the Division title?
I agree with your timeframe of the Steeler dynasty ending. I don't view the 1982 Steelers as an extension of the Steeler dynasty; that team was inconsistent and got blanked by the Seattle Seahawks. I can't imagine those 70's teams getting shutout by the Seahawks. The Steelers started the 1980 season well enough, but they lost two early games to the woeful Bengals and then the MNF Raiders game happened and the Steelers never returned to dominance. As you said, the pass rush was anemic, and Plunkett kind of had a coming out party in that Steelers game.
Though the ’70s were still fresh at the time - especially with that Monday Night opener reigniting that Steelers/Cowboys spirit - and there being quite enough Dynasty players still playing for them at a high enough level, I also wouldn’t call 1982 an “extension” either. I opine that the main teller of the Dynasty being over was that sweep to Cincy in ’80. But other candidates that I’ve mentioned before from that season are, indeed, that MNF loss to Oakland and also the loss the following week at Cleveland, now dropping the ’Burgh to 4-4. Despite getting back into the win column, the following week could be another teller of the Dynasty being done - that being their narrow victory at home over a bad Green Bay team (Mean Joe recording his very first sack of the season)! Here’s an SI cover story that came out following this very win…(LC on the cover)…

https://vault.si.com/vault/1980/11/10/70913-toc

There still could have been reason not to worry at the time being that in ’77 they also started 4-4. They still made the playoffs, won their division, and two more Lombardis in each of the following two campaigns. But this time is was over (along with #75’s relevance as a defensive force/presence), 1980 and 1981 serving as the one-two punch. Three-straight return-trips to the post-season, even with that AFCC-appearance in ’84, should not be seen as a…“continuation”.
Post Reply