Most "badass" RBs of all time

[racepug]

I think I would go with Nagurski and Taylor as the baddest of the bad in this context.
(and, of course, Jim Brown)

Someone I don't really think of as a "badass" but who I definitely wouldn't want to try and tackle head-on is Roger Craig.
No way I would want any of that "high knee action" anywhere near my noggin.

I was a HUGE Roger Craig fan back then. I always thought of him as a "poor man's" Walter Payton.

[JeffreyMiller]

Cookie Gilchrist has to be in the conversation. Derrick Henry too. Jim Taylor, Larry Csonka, Christian Okoye ...

So, originally I asked of another football lover (via e-mail): "Who do you suppose was the most 'badass' of all time between Jim Brown, John Henry Johnson, Cookie Gilchrist, and Marion Motley?" His response? "If you were to ask Jim Brown I'm sure he'd say it was him!" Before I started doing all my research on football players of the past a few years ago the first I ever heard of John Henry Johnson was in a story by H.o.F.er Art Donovan, Jr. About how Artie gave J.H.J. an extra "nudge" on a play after J.H.J. was knocked out-of-bounds and then "I got out of the way REAL quick" when J.H.J. came after "whoever it was who'd gone 'extracurricular' on him." With Cookie I've read that in a key late season game between his Bills and the Patriots he knocked Chuck Shonta out on the first play of the game and then yelled to the other Patriots: "Which one of you MF'ers is next?!" The Bills went on to win. Also, Cookie claimed that he told Jim Brown face-to-face that if the N.F.L. hadn't forced Paul Brown to give him (Cookie) up "nobody ever would've heard of you." Larry Csonka was pretty "badass," I guess, but I've often wondered how much of it was him and how much of it was his outstanding O-line. What I do know is that Phil Villapiano in the book "The Super '70s," when asked the guy he most hated to have to bring down, ultimately said, "Larry Csonka. He was an absolute monster." Okoye? I loved "The Nigerian Nightmare"! Everything about him - his story (going to little Azusa Pacific), the fact that he was from Nigeria and was a star in the N.F.L., the fact he played for the Kansas City Chiefs - everything. But I've long had the impression that neither he nor his reputation were ever the same after that famous hit on him by Steve Atwater (you know which hit I'm talkin' 'bout). Oh - one more story about Cookie Gilchrist: in a book I recently read about the AFL I read that in a pre-season game between (I believe) the Bills and the Vikings, supposedly Cookie Gilchrist did such a number on (then rookie, I believe) Alan Page that the Vikings moved Page to DT from DE. How 'bout THEM apples?

Cookie has been criticized for his relationships with authority figures, but aside from anyone's opinion in that regard, he was a team player who was willing to block for teammates. He was a good pass catcher as well. he was a linebacker in the CFL, too, and wanted to play it in Buffalo! But there is no doubting his toughness. Teammates said he would go out of his way to hit would-be tacklers ... not the best evasive strategy but certainly sent a message! He was also a kicker on occasion with the Bills, and was known to actually be the first one downfield to make the tackle after kicking off! Yeah, he was pretty frikkin tough!

[JWL]

How about Larry Brown of the WFT?
The title of his autobiography is "I'll Always Get Up."

Of course, always is a very long time...
Opinions?

I had thought about Larry Brown too but hadn't bothered to make a post. So, yes, he is a good choice.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

Agree with Larry Brown for sure!

[JohnR]

Though Brown was a better runner than Gilchrist, I rate Cookie over him because he could wipe out people when blocking. Brown was one of the worst blockers I ever saw on films, for his size.

Yeah, I've often read that Jim Brown wasn't much for pass catching or for blocking. But I guess given his talent for running the ball he didn't need to be.

Was it a lack of talent or a lack of desire? Some of his blocks looked half-assed.

[racepug]

Cookie has been criticized for his relationships with authority figures, but aside from anyone's opinion in that regard, he was a team player who was willing to block for teammates. He was a good pass catcher as well. he was a linebacker in the CFL, too, and wanted to play it in Buffalo! But there is no doubting his toughness. Teammates said he would go out of his way to hit would-be tacklers ... not the best evasive strategy but certainly sent a message! He was also a kicker on occasion with the Bills, and was known to actually be the first one downfield to make the tackle after kicking off! Yeah, he was pretty frikkin tough!

Yeah, he has been, but the impression I've always had about that is that his "attitude problem" came mostly from his unwillingness to tolerate certain things about our society that he (and others) felt were unfair. Clearly he wasn't alone in that. Anybody else have a different view?

[Brian wolf]

I honestly believe that Jim Brown just wanted the ball in his hands and was either disinterested or trying to rest more without it. He liked to dish punishment out while running but wasnt comfortable absorbing a defensive player's charge during pass protection but you would think a guy his size would want to fire out at defenders to help his running or receiving, like Marcus Allen, Walter Payton, Don Perkins and Cookie Gilchrist did.

On the opposite note, a defensive back like Deion Sanders would want to fight, bump and run with receivers trying to keep them from getting the ball but didnt like to deal with runners and receivers who had the ball in their hands.

To me, Matt Snell was a true bad-ass. Coming out of Ohio State, the Jets thought about trying him at linebacker but Woody Hayes, his college coach, thought he would help their offence as a physical blocker and runner but being a competitor and leader, Snell developed as a receiver as well while making tackles on special teams. He was their true team captain and pushed Namath and other teammates like Maynard, Boozer and Sauer to be better players. It was actually cool to watch the Jets offense defer to him in the Super Bowl because everyone, including the Colts, thought Namath would throw fifty passes during the game. Don Shula stated that Snell played the best game he ever saw from a fullback ...

[sheajets]

Campbell was an absolute monster.

He gets knocked into Bevo at Texas and the steer actually went down

He delivered this stiff arm

I recall while falling short of the endzone against Miami at a game in the Astrodome, he one hand stiff arms a guy and actually pushes himself back forward to his feet. Lifts the NFL player in the air and pushes him and himself into the endzone I have never seen a player do that

[sheajets]

I honestly believe that Jim Brown just wanted the ball in his hands and was either disinterested or trying to rest more without it. He liked to dish punishment out while running but wasnt comfortable absorbing a defensive player's charge during pass protection but you would think a guy his size would want to fire out at defenders to help his running or receiving, like Marcus Allen, Walter Payton, Don Perkins and Cookie Gilchrist did.

On the opposite note, a defensive back like Deion Sanders would want to fight, bump and run with receivers trying to keep them from getting the ball but didnt like to deal with runners and receivers who had the ball in their hands.

To me, Matt Snell was a true bad-ass. Coming out of Ohio State, the Jets thought about trying him at linebacker but Woody Hayes, his college coach, thought he would help their offence as a physical blocker and runner but being a competitor and leader, Snell developed as a receiver as well while making tackles on special teams. He was their true team captain and pushed Namath and other teammates like Maynard, Boozer and Sauer to be better players. It was actually cool to watch the Jets offense defer to him in the Super Bowl because everyone, including the Colts, thought Namath would throw fifty passes during the game. Don Shula stated that Snell played the best game he ever saw from a fullback ...

Maynard was injured that game as well...couldn't be big part of the offense (though the Colts were wary of him) But I mean if this was a regular season game they probably don't dress Maynard

[sheajets]

One thing I always loved about Brown was how he'd psychologically destroy a defense. May have been a clip from 75 Seasons...but he talks about getting the ball, getting 5/6 yards...he's hit, brought down. He would get up slowly, methodically...make it look like he was ailing or that the defense was wearing him down. They would see that on the other end and get their hopes up. Then he'd get the ball again and come right back at them with absolute ferocity.