The Pressure on Place Kickers

Gary Najman
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by Gary Najman »

Sonny9 wrote:2. Tommy Tupa
IIRC he was playing mostly at QB from 1988-1992 before switching to punting full time, although he was a 2nd or 3rd stringer at QB and filled sometimes.. In 1994 he was the first player to score on a 2-point conversion in NFL history while with the Browns, and in 1999 he filled for an injured Vinny Testaverde at QB for the Jets in the opening game and threw 2 TDs. In 2002 while playing for Tampa Bay, he threw a pick-six in his own end zone in overtime against the Saints after a botched snap.
JohnTurney
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by JohnTurney »

Jay Z wrote:
3. Was there ever a soccer-style kicker that was also a teams regular at a position?

Jim Fraser of the Broncos was a soccer style kicker and a regular at a position. So he answers the question. Now Fraser was not the regular kicker, he just kicked occasionally.
You're right...I didn't consider him or Jeff Heath, Wes Welker or Justin Reid and by the wording of the question I should have. So the answer is yes... I blew it. Have been guys kickoff, too, soccer style, Suh, Bierman, etc. and other position players who kicked in an emergency...

Maybe 2 categories---guys who were a regular (starter or "starter's minutes") position player and regular kicker or punter...that's what
would make it a rare thing.

Emergencies - guys who step in and kick one or two PATs in their career would be a separate, but interesting thing...but it's more
of a novelty . . . not a guy who has a duel role like Waterfield or Studstill or Hornung or Jerry Kramer, Lou Michaels, Wayne Walker.

Back then, there had to be guys then who had to dust off the old kicking shoe in an emergency when the starting kicker was hurt--and they
kicked a FG or a PAT or two
Sonny9
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by Sonny9 »

in 1963 I believe was the year, the Packers Robinson and I think Wood did some kickoffs
JohnTurney
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by JohnTurney »

Sonny9 wrote:in 1963 I believe was the year, the Packers Robinson and I think Wood did some kickoffs
Lonnie Perrish did a lot of kickoffs for Denver
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Bryan
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by Bryan »

Jay Z wrote:Jim Fraser of the Broncos was a soccer style kicker and a regular at a position. So he answers the question. Now Fraser was not the regular kicker, he just kicked occasionally.
I am surprised that this factoid is so obscure, considering Fraser predated the Gogolak's. I found a photo of Fraser soccer-styling a kickoff in 1962; but I did not know he did this until you mentioned it just now. Even in my Barely Audible book which details the AFL Denver Broncos and has a profile on Fraser, it still doesn't mention Fraser being a soccer-style kicker.
JohnTurney
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by JohnTurney »

Bryan wrote: I am surprised that this factoid is so obscure, considering Fraser predated the Gogolak's. I found a photo of Fraser soccer-styling a kickoff in 1962; but I did not know he did this until you mentioned it just now. Even in my Barely Audible book which details the AFL Denver Broncos and has a profile on Fraser, it still doesn't mention Fraser being a soccer-style kicker.
It was never talked about on NFL Films or in magazines. Rick Gonsalves wrote about it about 10 years ago and that was the first I'd heard or read about it. His source was a letter from Fraser . . . but going back in old newspapers you can find references to him kicking soccer-style.

It's similar to Kenny Washington being the first African-American to play quarterback (T-formation) in an NFL game, not Willie Thrower. It was written about in the newspapers at the time but then forgotten until decades later...

It goes to the issue of what is a thing - a novelty of one guy doing something (position player being a kicker) on special occasion (position player kicking, Welker or Flutie) or is it a guy who is on the team as a kicker and backup QB (Blanda) or as I mentioned a guy who is a starter who also is the kicker . . .(O'brien, Wayne Walker, Hornung ,etc).

What constitutes a position player doing double duty? Being being a backup QB and P (Tupa) fit the bill or being a starter (Danny White) better fit the bill. Both can be right depending on what someone defines the duty.

Even Gonsalves' book says it this way - which seems accurate . . . but maybe press ignored it because he wasn't the guy who kicked PAT, FG and kicked off . . . just a guess
in any event I didn't know until Gonsalves' book. He wrote the same book in 1977, which I have, and didn't mention it.
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PA Wingman
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by PA Wingman »

In 1965 Eagles starting Middle Linebacker Dave Lloyd filled in for an injured Sam Baker for a couple of games. He was 1 for 2 in field goal attempts and 7 for 7 at PAT's.
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Retro Rider
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by Retro Rider »

Bryan wrote: I am surprised that this factoid is so obscure, considering Fraser predated the Gogolak's. I found a photo of Fraser soccer-styling a kickoff in 1962; but I did not know he did this until you mentioned it just now. Even in my Barely Audible book which details the AFL Denver Broncos and has a profile on Fraser, it still doesn't mention Fraser being a soccer-style kicker.
Jim Fraser was a perfect 2 for 2 on extra points in 1962. I'd followed the Broncos since 1971 and didn't know about his soccer style kicking until I saw this photo a few years ago:

https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/ne ... /161974757

Bob Kessler (1962 ACFL) and Geno Beretta (1963 CFL) pre-dated Pete Gogolak as well. Kessler was a designated kicking specialist. Beretta was primarily a punter but he took on placekicking duties halfway through the Montreal Alouettes 1963 season. He also saw action at wide receiver.

This was from a thread back in 2014:

#4 Bob Gill
Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:46 PM
I believe the first soccer-style kicker in an official professional game was Bob Kessler, who kicked for the Providence Steamroller in the Atlantic Coast Football League in 1962. Kessler was the ACFL's top kicker, making 33 extra points and 2 field goals during the regular season.

https://www.profootballresearchers.org/ ... 455&p=2634
JohnTurney
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by JohnTurney »

Retro Rider wrote: Jim Fraser was a perfect 2 for 2 on extra points in 1962. I'd followed the Broncos since 1971 and didn't know about his soccer style kicking until I saw this photo a few years ago:
When I saw what Rick Gonsalves wrote back then I was curious. At some point I went back to see what could be found...and Fraser's style was mentioned at the time..so writers knew, they just didn't focus on it...maybe they did on TV games or something...I've never seen any AFL telecasts from that era...but what I learned
was Fraser got the job because he saw who they had trying out and told them he was better than both of them and they did some sort of kicking/punting challenge.

Fraser did well enough that Jack Faulker used him to punt and "was being groomed" to kick field goals--that was at midseason 1962.

I grew up with tons of family that were Broncos fans, we'd talk football all the time, they never mentioned it...so for it being a major league football first (I can see the omitting of CFL and semi-pro) it should have gotten more play, you'd think.
sheajets
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Re: The Pressure on Place Kickers

Post by sheajets »

I remember hearing the barefoot style was tried because they thought it would result in more accuracy when striking the ball. The top of the kocking shoe back then was prob not as smooth as a foot so more of a chance you make contact with an uneven surface and the ball may veer off course.
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