Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby sheajets » Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:20 pm

The 1965 NFL Champion Packers vs. The AFL Champion Buffalo Bills.

What if the leagues agreed to a World Championship game a bit earlier? How do you see this game going? The Packers had the NFL's best ranked defense that year and started out 6-0, but then stumbled to a 4-3-1 finish and had that controversial 13-10 OT triumph vs Baltimore before taking care of the Browns. A game where Hornung and Taylor just shredded Cleveland and not much was asked of Starr.

The Bills of 1965 were repeat champions with the best ranked D in the AFL. Not an impressive running game (Billy Joe and Wray Carlton) They really spread the ball around in the passing game...but nobody there really to strike fear in secondaries. Kemp had a powerful arm though he was never going to wow you with his completion percentage...but they had a couple of very tall receivers (Paul Costa, Ernie Warlick, Glenn Bass,Charley Ferguson) who could go up and get the football and rip off some "chunk plays" as they're called today.

Butch Byrd, McDole, Mike Stratton, Tom Sestak...they had a good deal of talent on that D. Would they have been gashed by Hornung and Jimmy Taylor much like Cleveland was?

How do you see this game going?
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby Citizen » Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:42 am

The Bills' defense is the only Buffalo virtue you mention that I can see really mattering much. Depending on the conditions, neutralizing Green Bay's ground game could make a bit of a difference, but then they'd have the option of letting Starr loose at a stage in his career when he was arguably at his most effective/efficient.

It would probably be closer than either of the first two real Super Bowls, but I'd still go with Green Bay by at least 10.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby Bob Gill » Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:54 am

The Packers beat the Browns by 11 (23-12, wasn't it?), and that team had JIM BROWN, plus Frank Ryan, Paul Warfield and Gary Collins. I can't see the Bills scoring more than 10, and that would be a stretch. On the other hand, I think the Packers would have scored AT LEAST 23 against Buffalo, so I think they would've won by a couple of touchdowns, maybe more. I can't see it being much of a contest.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby racepug » Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:44 am

Funny you should mention that. I recently purchased a (very thorough!) football simulation game and ran NFL champion vs. AFL champion, 1960 through 1965. The results? The NFL champions won the 1961 through 1964 battles but HOU knocked off PHI in the battle of 1960 champions and BUF knocked off G.B. in the battle of 1965 champions.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby JuggernautJ » Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:22 pm

Agreed on the results (Packers in a near-romp).
Unless... Mike Stratton knocked Jim Taylor out of the game on his second carry (ala Keith Lincoln in the 1964 AFL Championship Game).

And that's not a negative on the Bills... Lombardi's Packers were simply the best team in football from 1961 till (at least) the mid-60's.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby RRMarshall » Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:12 pm

My guess it would be a dull 24-10 affair with lots or rushing attempts. The score might balloon if the Bills turned the ball over. Their '64 club from the previous season with Cookie Gilchrist would have given the Browns a tough game though.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby 74_75_78_79_ » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:26 pm

RRMarshall wrote:Their '64 club from the previous season with Cookie Gilchrist would have given the Browns a tough game though.


Very much agreed! '64 Bills noticeably better than '65 in my estimation. Of all the hypo-'60-thru-'65 SBs, Bills/Browns '64 is the only one IMHO in which the AFL champ would have given a good challenge to the NFL champ. I believe I said, recently, that it likely would have gone into OT. Okay, maybe not quite! Maybe a simple 7-point win by Cleveland, but very competitive throughout just the same.

As I've opined previously here (and all due respect towards Gilliam), I am not a believer in that Chargers/Bears '63 would have been close! More like a SBXIX/SBXLVIII-precursor. Same with had the Hornung-less Pack played against SD; and also Allie's G-men playing against them!

'61 Oilers? They're a team I've been intrigued by, and enlightened about, lately! A bit '94 Forty Niners-like! But, first, it was just the AFL's second year of existence (much needed progression ahead), and - second - a 'Super Bowl' would have been against a Lombardi Packer squad that was now fully ready to accomplish winning-it-all! Heck, if they beat Giants, 37-0...
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby JohnH19 » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:27 pm

JuggernautJ wrote:And that's not a negative on the Bills... Lombardi's Packers were simply the best team in football from 1961 till (at least) the mid-60's.


The Packers were quite clearly the best team in football until Lombardi quit coaching them. Don’t underestimate the ‘67 team who lost their last two regular season games in a near miracle to the Rams and then a meaningless finale to the Steelers.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby Jay Z » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:57 pm

One interesting stat. Packers, Bills, and Browns all gave up more yardage than they gained. Really odd for championship teams.

Remember the Packers dominating run game against the Browns in the Championship? Well, the Browns' run defense was terrible, so it really wasn't that surprising. NFL East was usually weaker than NFL West and it really was in 1965.

Both Packers and Bills had big turnover differentials in their favor. Difference is that Packers did that every year and Bills did not.

Packers' pass defense was tough as usual. Easier to run, but the Bills couldn't really run all that well. Plus the receiving corps was banged up all year. Ernie Warlick was a surprise starter against the Chargers, a two TE look with Paul Costa. Otherwise Ed Rutkowski is the other end. I suppose the Packers have this on film since it's SB 0, so no way to surprise them with it.

Was the Bills' defense NFL legit? Might have been, especially compared to the Browns. On the other hand, hard to see the Bills moving the ball much, and easy to see Kemp throwing a pick or two. Bills have to hope for a turnover free game and some long Gogolak FGs. Not likely.
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Re: Super Bowl 0 - What if?

Postby JuggernautJ » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:47 am

JohnH19 wrote:
JuggernautJ wrote:And that's not a negative on the Bills... Lombardi's Packers were simply the best team in football from 1961 till (at least) the mid-60's.


The Packers were quite clearly the best team in football until Lombardi quit coaching them. Don’t underestimate the ‘67 team who lost their last two regular season games in a near miracle to the Rams and then a meaningless finale to the Steelers.


I don't (underestimate them).
But I wanted to leave room for other opinions regarding the late 60's.
Please also notice I emphasized the word team. As in any era, there were many great players in the NFL but Lombardi had his Packers in nearly perfect synchronicity. Truly the Team of the 60's (in either league).
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