Packers Senior Candidates

[CliffChristl]

I thought I had answered a question about the Packers senior Pro Football Hall of Fame candidates from long ago. But I don't see the post. Must have hit the wrong key. My apologies.
I'd rate Lewellen, No. 1. No question. I think he is the most deserving player in the entire NFL not in the Hall. In fact, when one researches only primary sources and nothing later than about 1965, you get the impression the debate at that point among the few former Packers who were eyewitnesses to all of Lambeau's great players from Lewellen to Hutson (Charlie Mathys, Jug Earp, Johnny Blood, Mike Michalske, who played and then stayed in the GB area and/or closely followed the team, or even worked for it) was whether Lewellen or Hinkle was the franchise's greatest player.
I think Dilweg is certainly deserving. Lambeau called him the best end in the seven-man line era. And he was a six-time all-pro on the GB Press-Gazette all-pro teams selected by coaches, club officials and sportswriters from across the league. What I find interesting, though, is this: In the few newspaper stories of the day that went into much detail about the specifics of Dilweg's strengths, the suggestion was that No. 1 was his ability to cover punts, and I don't know that I've ever seen that mentioned in stories about Dilweg's Hall credentials. Ray Flaherty wrote an instructive article on the duties of ends in Spalding's 1940 NFL guide. And it reflects to a degree what Lambeau and others said about ends in the 1920s, early '30s: That covering punts may have been their most important assignment. The reason I rank Dilweg behind Lewllen is that in the old game stories and play-by-plays not only in Green Bay and Milwaukee, but opposing cities, as well, is that Lewellen dominated games time and time again with his punting and scoring prowess. Dilweg did a lot of the dirty work, but he didn't average much more than a catch a game, if that.
What's more, the Packers had another outstanding defensive end, Larry Craig. Sammy Baugh said at the end of his career: “Any time anybody asks me who gave me the most trouble when I was attempting to pass, I always say Larry Craig. We could never handle him consistently. We tried to keep our best blocker on him, but he still rushed me harder than anyone I ever played against.” Baugh also picked Craig as the blocking back on his all-time team. Plus, Bob Waterfield and Bobby Layne offered similar praise of Craig's defensive play. Craig's teammates called him "Superman."
Isbell has impressive credentials, too. As a passer, his numbers were better than Baugh's when he retired after five seasons. And, actually, Isbell led the Packers in rushing his first two years, while Arnie Herber and/or Bobby Monnett combined for or had more passing yards. But, again, the ND Box was not the single wing. So Isbell, as the LHB, didn't call signals. He also shared playing time at first with Monnett, another Packer Hall of Famer, and then apparently with others because he was only an average defender. Monnett was also a combination runner-passer. In addition, Isbell played in the same backfield as Herber (the RHB) at times and, thus, wasn't always the primary passer his first three years. That said, Isbell's 2,021 passing yards in 1942 were almost 500 more than Baugh had ever thrown for at that point. Isbell also owned the NFL record for most touchdown passes in a career with 59. Baugh was second with 56 even though he had played one more season than Isbell. Here's what Bernie Scherer, Packers end from 1936-38, said about the three halfbacks: “They were different kinds of players. Herber was a better long passer. Isbell could run better. Herber couldn’t run at all. The best of all was Bobby Monnett. He could run the ball and throw the kind of pass you liked to catch. He was just great. I thought more of him than Isbell or Herber.”

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Cliff. Really appreciate your posting this. It was a great read - really persuasive.

I'd be happy to see Lewellen in the HOF, but I have Dilweg higher in my personal rankings partly because when I look at things by position, I think of him and Chamberlin, so he's essentially one of the first two players I think of. Backs are tougher - Driscoll, Friedman, Grange, and Nevers are all in. And there are a few other backs from the '20s high in my personal rankings who aren't in. Backs can also be tough to compare even when they essentially played the same position. Thinking of an example like Dutch Clark who was a tailback whose value wasn't based on passing. With ends, it's just more cut-and-dry to me - without having to do any mental gymnastics, the second end I think of isn't in.

[Brian wolf]

Thanks Cliff ... Isbell didnt make Finalist this year. Sharpe may get elected ...
Dilweg and Lewellen can hope for next year.

[JohnTurney]

Thanks for the knowledge. There are people who I respect who have Dilweg>Lewellen
and others who have Lewellen>Diwleg

I can only defer...but my preference is that both get in.

I also think Isbell falls short of HOF...I think he gets in the way
of the two guys who appear to me at least to have better cases.

[TanksAndSpartans]

my preference is that both get in.

+1 for both. It's too bad the centennial class got out of kilter (imo) with players from the 1980s etc. I'd be a fan of every 5 years or so focussing on something - so there could be a year where they focussed on the '20s.

[Brian wolf]

Was Larry Craig as a good a pass rusher or in the same league with Ed Sprinkle?
I really wonder which defensive players could tackle or harrass the early T-Formation QBs? Say 1943-1953?

[JohnTurney]

What's more, the Packers had another outstanding defensive end, Larry Craig. Sammy Baugh said at the end of his career: “Any time anybody asks me who gave me the most trouble when I was attempting to pass, I always say Larry Craig. We could never handle him consistently. We tried to keep our best blocker on him, but he still rushed me harder than anyone I ever played against.” Baugh also picked Craig as the blocking back on his all-time team. Plus, Bob Waterfield and Bobby Layne offered similar praise of Craig's defensive play. Craig's teammates called him "Superman."

Chris Willis wrote this about LC, "He was one of the most perfectly built human beings I’ve ever seen. He looked like Hercules. He was just tough," once said Clyde Goodnight, former Packers teammate…and also has the Baugh quote "Any time anybody asks me who gave me the most trouble when I was attempting to pass, I always say Larry Craig. We could never handle him consistently. We tried to keep our best blocker on him, but he still rushed me harder than anyone I ever played against."—Sammy Baugh

[Brian wolf]

John, do you have the PFJ link to Chris Willis's great Pre-WWII players ?

[JohnTurney]

John, do you have the PFJ link to Chris Willis's great Pre-WWII players ?

this quote came from this article by him
https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... backs.html

if you click on this search label (paste this into the search bar, all the NFL 100 article come up)
https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... /NFL%20100

[Brian wolf]

Thanks John !