Wondering if this will work

[JohnTurney]

https://talkoffametwo.com/nfl/historian ... -hall-vote

Open Letter: Historians' Plea to Change Seniors' Process
Unhappy with the Hall's seniors' vote, 12 historians and podcasters offer this solution in an open letter to Canton.


There are some egos on the Seniors' committee and cannot say for sure but guessing they will not take
this well ... on other hand, I could be wrong and also those were the three finalists last year.

Been in favor of RG, BK for 20 years...but though unlikely hoping for Wistert...Sharpe
can wait but his momentum is prob unstoppable.

[rewing84]

Well written letter overall

[Brian wolf]

I understand where you guys are coming from John but I may have to disagree ...

We are talking seniors here, not modern players for nomination. There doesnt even have to be a queue with this group, with 31 semifinalists, the whole deck can be reshuffled and reevaluated. Voters can change their minds on the sequence of finalists. What if a couple of voters who pushed for Isbell last year, went for Wistert or someone else new this year? The whole process can give every senior a puncher's chance to advance, regardless where they were last year.

The process you advocate is sound but we are talking 12 seniors advancing, not just three ... If Kooch, Sharpe and especially Gradishar(who I wont believe till I see it) advance into the top three, so be it, but upsets and surprises SHOULD be able to happen ... especially if the voters do their homework like sluggermatt said. Meador has every right to go from top-6 to top-3 this year, as long as he gets support.

Voters will be stubborn and cling to last years thinking and voting process, yet that can open laziness as well, especially with new additions that can naturally shake the process. Sharpe is deserving, yet what if a voter decided on a total player to enter the top six, or even top three with Albert Lewis, who specialized on defense and special teams and played alot longer ?

If the voters hold true to rock-solid queues without reevaluation or even reshuffling, we could possibly have TWO throwers in Isbell(non-QB)and Anderson get elected in 2025, where many felt these guys were borderline for years ... For me, every year should be a new, fresh voting experience. If the voters still follow the queue, so be it ...

[JohnTurney]

I understand where you guys are coming from John but I may have to disagree ...

I saw it this morning for the first time after it was published. Those who wrote it would be better at addressing your concerns.
While it is an interesting approach I was not part of it and was not asked to sign.

There was some discussion on Twitter with Ken and some of the signatories, though. You may want to check it out.

[Brian wolf]

Thanks John ... I should have addressed it with Clark but thought you were involved with the article as well ... I apologize. I basically addressed the same concerns on another, much earlier thread. I shouldnt have assumed ...

[JohnTurney]

I apologize. .. I shouldnt have assumed ...

No need to apologize. I was just clarifying.

Also, Jack Silverstein asked me to post this as his response
he sent an email to me. He's trying to get an account here
finalized so he can continue convo.

Anyway...he should be able to respond on his own later today

Brian Wolf, to your question about the queue, please let me clarify that as noted in the letter, the queue that we are proposing is only about the 4-6 becoming the automatic class the following year.

Under our proposal, everything else (the other six finalists + other semifinalists + non-semifinalists) is up for review.

I discussed some of this here: https://twitter.com/readjack/status/1681055051505098752 and to recap, our view is that because the Hall is now making public the three players who finished 4-6, they should simply make those three the class for the next year, because nothing of note is changing. The voters put those players through a full debate, and as I said on Twitter, looking just at last year, the process that led to Howley/Klecko/Riley as the class of 2023 is the same process that led to Gradishar/Kuechenberg/Sharpe as the three runners-up.

We are all for continued discussions and the possibility that minds change, which is why we're not proposing a full queue from a class all the way to the last semifinalist who got in on a tie. We're only saying that in order to create consistency for senior nominees and manage their expectations (no one wants another scene like we had with Drew Pearson a few years ago, for instance), that if you're worthy enough to be 4-6 one year then you're worthy enough to be 1-3 the next.

Another angle on this is player health and age as a factor in the senior pool. We're seeing this play out in Bears land with Steve McMichael, as his supporters want him to go in as soon as possible considering he has ALS. Under our proposal, voters would approve Gradishar, Kuechenberg and Sharpe for 2024 and would spend their time debating the 4-6, which would be the 2025 class.

Therefore if they decided to vote McMichael in the 4-6, he and his family get to celebrate essentially a year earlier.

Brian, to your note here — "We are talking seniors here, not modern players for nomination." — the reason we are not pushing for a modern era queue is that the voting patterns show that players who reach the semis at an early enough year are guaranteed to get voted in. So while Bears fans might be frustrated that Hester was in the top 10 in 2022 and fell to the top 15 in 2023, or Dolphins fans might have been frustrated with Zach Thomas's wait, or Packers fans with LeRoy Butler's wait, etc., there are certain markers over time that show which modern-era guys will get in. (More on this here.)

The seniors have no such assurances.

I'm trying to register so I can jump in here and discuss but I wanted to get this over to John in the meantime. Thanks all!

[Brian wolf]

Thanks Jack ... a good proposal as long as voters do their homework and not get lazy. Hopefully Wistert or someone else may get the support to reach 4-6 for next years vote ... We will see.

Thanks John ...

[Ken Crippen]

I understand where you guys are coming from John but I may have to disagree ...

I saw it this morning for the first time after it was published. Those who wrote it would be better at addressing your concerns.
While it is an interesting approach I was not part of it and was not asked to sign.

There was some discussion on Twitter with Ken and some of the signatories, though. You may want to check it out.

As one of the signers, I can weigh in a little. I was late to get on board with it because the original letter did not address the pre-1960 guys. Jack put in a statement that there needs to be something done about the older players, and then I signed on. It is not a perfect plan, but it is something. Jack provided more details in John's post.

[readjack]

Thanks Jack ... a good proposal as long as voters do their homework and not get lazy. Hopefully Wistert or someone else may get the support to reach 4-6 for next years vote ... We will see.

Thanks John ...

Hi Brian! Yes, any process change still requires smart selections. If they follow our proposal, the 2024 4-6 (i.e. the class of 2025 in this scenario) could be a nice mix of generations: maybe Wistert, Baughan, McMichael. And then maybe the 2025 4-6 could be Dilweg, Nobis and Craig. I do feel like Lester Hayes needs to be in there somewhere. And I feel strongly that Kenny Washington and Joe Lillard need to be honored. So many great candidates, so few slots.

[rewing84]

Thanks Jack ... a good proposal as long as voters do their homework and not get lazy. Hopefully Wistert or someone else may get the support to reach 4-6 for next years vote ... We will see.

Thanks John ...

Hi Brian! Yes, any process change still requires smart selections. If they follow our proposal, the 2024 4-6 (i.e. the class of 2025 in this scenario) could be a nice mix of generations: maybe Wistert, Baughan, McMichael. And then maybe the 2025 4-6 could be Dilweg, Nobis and Craig. I do feel like Lester Hayes needs to be in there somewhere. And I feel strongly that Kenny Washington and Joe Lillard need to be honored. So many great candidates, so few slots.

Personal Op Id do Dilweg Meador Craig