When did the '85 Bears "begin" and "end"?

[Oszuscik]

How would you identify the Bears' championship window of the '80s?

Having experienced the Packers of the '90s, it's pretty clear that their rise was kicked off with the arrival of Wolf, Holmgren, and Favre in '92. They won their one Super Bowl, and their window closed after Holmgren left and Reggie retired in '98.

The Bears' window, to me, is harder to track. Ditka and McMahon arrived in '82, but they had a losing record that season and then went 8-8 the following year. They absolutely dominated in '85, and in '86 by going 14-2 even though they Flutie'ed themselves in the playoffs. They were obviously still a good team even without Buddy Ryan, but maybe not the same. Did losing their icon Walter Payton after '87 close the chapter on the '80s Bears? Or maybe getting rid of McMahon after '88? Stretching it to '92 with Ditka's final year seems a little generous. It's difficult for me to figure out where that team's story "ends".

[74_75_78_79_]

Hmm...with me, I'd say it started with that notorious 'bloodbath' win vs the Raiders in '84! LA would make the playoffs that year, and FWIW finish top-seed one year later, but the "Bad Boys of the NFL" baton would now be passed to da Bears as the days of the Silver & Black's swagger/mystique would now be numbered (thru '85) and they wouldn't win another playoff game until next decade.

The "end"? I'd say all hope for a second Ring was lost after allowing "finesse" San Fran to go into the night tundra and cut through them like a knife thru hot butter, 28-3! But not without breathing that very last breath of SB Shuffle-leftoverture the first four games of the following season - first beating the defending AFC champs who still had Ickey, putting up 38 on Floyd Peters (47 on Detroit in Wk#3), and beating alleged-at-the-time Super Bowl-bound Buddy's Birds by two TDs on MNF!

But back to the previous year's playoffs...going into the CCs, da Bears despite not looking at all as dominant as three years prior, were still a great 12-4 team and really looked even-odds at the very least to win-it-all. Sure enough they would have beaten either Cincy or Buffalo if they just got by that very 10-6 "finesse" team they were actually favored to beat! I did, at the time however, lean a bit toward San Fran (blasting the Vikings did catch my attention), but a Bears win - followed by a SB win - would not have surprised me. Losing 28-3, indeed, DID!

[Bryan]

Interesting question. I think there is a difference between the 85 Bears and the 85 BEARS.

85 Bears - agree that it probably started with the physical win over the Raiders in the 1984 regular season. I think the Bears set the sack record that year with 72, and no one has broken it. But the Bears were underdogs against the Redskins in the playoffs that year, which doesn't really jive with the 'unbeatable' vibe the 85 Bears had. I think in a general sense, the 85 Bears kind of died with the instant replay loss to the Packers in 1989...they fell apart after that and would at best make token playoff appearances in the next several years.

85 BEARS - this is when I considered them having an unbeatable vibe. I think it starts with the 1985 regular season win over the Cowboys of 44-0, and ends when McMahon was body-slammed in the 1986 regular season game against the Packers. The Bears were favored against the Redskins in the 1986 playoffs, and it was considered an upset that the Redskins ended up winning, but it wasn't totally shocking. The Bears weren't really the same without McMahon at the controls. The Bears did rebound at the start of 1987 and destroyed the defending champion Giants, so perhaps my ending isn't 'correct'. I think if there was any doubt about the Bears being 'beatable' in 1987, that would have disappeared following the MNF game against San Fran. Now THAT was shocking to me at the time. 41-0. Ditka throwing his gum at fans. I don't think anyone really "feared" the Bears after that.

[Brian wolf]

IMO the Bears started to become a team on the rise the moment Richard Dent started playing as a rookie in 1983. With McMichael coming into his own and Hampton all over the line, the team was coming together towards the end of the season despite missing the playoffs. Once Buddy Ryan left, the air came out of the defense but they still should have done better. Once the Niners whipped them in Jimmy Macs last game there, the teams chance to win it all pretty much died ...

[JohnTurney]

1984 through 4 games into 1989 when Hampton went down

He was never the same

Singletary/Hampton/Dent Duerson gone by '90

The team, was defense, IMOn but if part seasons don't
count 1984-88 is how I see it.

[7DnBrnc53]

The Bears did rebound at the start of 1987 and destroyed the defending champion Giants, so perhaps my ending isn't 'correct'. I think if there was any doubt about the Bears being 'beatable' in 1987, that would have disappeared following the MNF game against San Fran. Now THAT was shocking to me at the time. 41-0. Ditka throwing his gum at fans. I don't think anyone really "feared" the Bears after that.

At the start of 1987, that 85 Bears vibe did seem to be back. However, two things ended it:

1. The 1987 Strike

2. The MNF loss to Denver. When they were up 14-0 in the first half, they had the ball on Denver's one yard line. However, instead of giving it to Walter, Ditka tried to do the Refrigerator thing again. It wasn't 1985 anymore. He fumbled, Denver recovered, and they went on to win 31-29. After that, the Bears weren't the same.

[Bryan]

2. The MNF loss to Denver. When they were up 14-0 in the first half, they had the ball on Denver's one yard line. However, instead of giving it to Walter, Ditka tried to do the Refrigerator thing again. It wasn't 1985 anymore. He fumbled, Denver recovered, and they went on to win 31-29. After that, the Bears weren't the same.

Do you remember how that game ended? If I recall correctly, the Bears had the ball at the end and were driving to get into field goal position. Tomczak was the QB, but then like the last couple plays of the game were Walter Payton dives up the middle. I think Tomczak said he didn't realize that time was running out, but it was weird that no one else in the huddle spoke up.

[74_75_78_79_]

2. The MNF loss to Denver. When they were up 14-0 in the first half, they had the ball on Denver's one yard line. However, instead of giving it to Walter, Ditka tried to do the Refrigerator thing again. It wasn't 1985 anymore. He fumbled, Denver recovered, and they went on to win 31-29. After that, the Bears weren't the same.

Do you remember how that game ended? If I recall correctly, the Bears had the ball at the end and were driving to get into field goal position. Tomczak was the QB, but then like the last couple plays of the game were Walter Payton dives up the middle. I think Tomczak said he didn't realize that time was running out, but it was weird that no one else in the huddle spoke up.

Tomczak (now in for a real banged up McMahon since the previous play), as Dierdorf exclaimed from the booth, didn't even know it was 4th down on that last play. And Dan also suggested that someone should have alerted him of that. Seeing that final possession unfold, there seemed no sense of urgency at all from the Bears' sideline; not even from Ditka. No 'fire' seen from him, head held down. That final drive started on Chi's own 45 with 45 seconds left with no timeouts. Jim started the possession but should have been out in the first place. Setting up a Butler FG was doable-enough, even with Tomczak at QB and #34 now out.

But it shouldn't have come to that in the first place! Two missed XPs by Butler! Tomczak botched a snap on one of them. That Fridge decision already mentioned, but it was actually Chi 14 Den 7 when it took place; not 14-0. Not only was he placed into the goal-line offense, but McMichael was at TE on that play and also the previous play. And on that previous play, Perry was standing behind Ditka likely begging him to get (back) in on the fun as well since Steve was also out there. Now on the field and prior to entering the Bears' huddle, #72 pointed at the Broncos huddle apparently talking trash; announcing his "Return". Of course he fumbled it away, hit as he was taking the hand-off, and from there the Bears' D (yes, Hampton and Wilson were out) allowed Elway to drive all the way down the field to tie it (but some of Denver's defenders were out as well). I don't know, you'd think after knowing just how much it upset Walter after that SB, you'd think Ditka would have simply been done with that goal-line Fridge stuff. And as great a game McMahon played, he did throw a late off-balance INT deep in Broncos' territory which, then, led to Elway driving them to what would be the winning TD. It was Jim's first loss as a starter since 1984.

As this article here states (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html), even going into this showdown at Mile High, the Bears' fearsome-factor seemed to have gone awry. They were 7-1 at the time, 5-0 in their non-scab games; but those last three wins since the strike were close high-enough scoring affairs with each one being against not just bad competition, but bad offenses themselves (albeit, yes, DeBerg being one of those opposing QBs). WRs were no longer afraid to go across the middle against them. This '87 installment is definitely the weakest link of the three (McMahon) seasons following the 'Shuffle'.

41-0??!! Bears already having clinched the division and McMahon being out cannot at all be seen as an excuse! Two 10-2 teams not just fighting for home-field, but simply wanting to make a "statement" along with Bears still remembering that '84 NFCCG blowout, and still having reason to be fired-up despite getting 'revenge' the following season (their last meeting up to then)! Beating Minnesota on the road to bring themselves to that very 10-2 record was their only non-scab win vs a winning team in '87. And, let's face it, that opener over the defending-Champs, G-men, was only a big deal in the immediate aftermath. Soon enough, thanks to the obvious hangover, I would see things differently.

When they went up on Washington, 14-0, I was actually surprised at the time. And already rooting for them, I further cheered them on; but all for naught. And knowing it was Sweetness's last game (image of him still on that bench after the game) a sad memory.

Yes, in '88, Bears would suffer three losses by more than 20 pts - home to Vikings, at Flutie's Pats, and at Rams - but did beat Bills 24-3 and did beat San Fran in their regular season affair (and FWIW won at 9-7 Indy though, yes, Colts were in midst of that 1-5 start). Between San Fran bashing Vikings and the 'Fog' at least seeming to assist the Bears, I leaned on San Fran going into that NFCCG. But, as I said before, Bears still looked like a valid-enough last-team-standing going into that 'final four'.

[Brian wolf]

Help me out Bears fans and historians ...

Why didnt Tomczak take over this team and be more successful? As a starter he had a winning record with 21 wins including his first 10 starts. Did he bristle under Mike Ditka? Did he just want to help his team until McMahon took the job or simply content being a backup?

Maybe Ditka hurt his confidence by replacing him with Doug Flutie in 1986, yet he ended up staying while Flutie got shipped off. The team was still good but not like they had once been. What is it with QBs from Ohio State, though he helped the Steelers later? Though he wasnt drafted, he had a winning overall record throughout his career. Does anyone remember what Ditka thought of him?