Standards and fariness

Discuss candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the PFRA's Hall of Very Good

Standards and fariness

Postby JohnTurney » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:00 pm

Obviously there are no set standards for a Hall of Fame coach.
We all can have our own standards, nothing is universal.

My standards for a HOF coach boil down to two things
Championships and innovation (a broad term, includes
guys like Coryell, Clark Shaughnessy, etc, but also
maybe Jimmy Johnson's standardizing the draft trade chart or
even DUngy "use" of the Tampa-2 which was called Cover-22
when Bud Carson used it)

SO, when you have 8 coaches on a list (and add in Marty or
Knox or Shanahan, etc) and none of them are the obvious
kind of HOF coach, Shula, Noll, etc how do you separate
them knowing there are 2 slots only?

In my opinion there is little separating them which is why they
all have had trouble getting in. A case can be made for all of them
but in the end who has the best "case" and what are the standards
that make tha case?

SB wins--okay, that's easy
Winning percentage---easy to look up
Playoff W-L %--also easy to look up
Total wins---a reflection of longevity---easy to look up

after that, it's subjective---was a guys W-L % affected by the Chicken sh!t to chicken salad thing.
Jimmy Johnson took CS and made salad. Cowher took shredded chicken and improved it to salad
Dick Vermeil twice took CS and made salad...then with Chiefs was close to that

Coryell didnt have the wins---he had the innovation.

Of the 8 Buddy Parker was likely next in "innovation".

Bottom line is things so tight, IMO, only way to be fair is have some standards
and if SB wins are the thing, then those guys should go in first, then the guys 1 one
and they can be slugged out (Cowher in that group with Holmgren and Vermiel, etc)

Then Reeves, Knox, Shotty---and look at them,

Another tangible standard is if somone made the Final 15 before, which means there
was support by the regular committee. The Blue Ribbon committee could have considered
that, but Cowher leapfrogged that like he leapfrogged the 2-win guys.

If Cowher had been some kind of innovator (anything, someone tell me) or had been
the vicitim of starting with a bad team and turning it around I could see it.

He ranks very high in win % regular season and total.

In 2005 he got his ring and was 4-0 in playoffs makeing him 12-9. (Was 8-9 before that)
lost 6 AFCCG, which is good he got there, but not good they lost so many.

Bottom line---maybe he's HOF worthy, probably is a marginal yes for me... but nowhere
near good enough to leapfrog others. Especially when this class was sold as a 'makeup'
deal for guys who maybe got overlooked (Parker) or had a hard time beating out players
for one of the 5 regular slots...so the backlog could ease. This leaves the backlog of
Final 15 guys (Coryell, Floes, Johnson) the same.

So, sadly, I have to say this was clearly political, a buddy-buddy thing. We need butts in seats
for this 2020 centennial class when we induct them and the best way to do that is put in a
Steeler whose fanbase overwhelms Canton when "their guys" get in compared to other teams.

Since a good number of the others will be dead, they will not draw support... Cowher will
help a lot.

Now I believe the rumors that this whole thing was set up to get Tagliabue in among other
friends of the NFL and the BR committee was a backdoor in for friends of the NFL
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Re: Standards and fariness

Postby Bdbop » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:38 pm

If that is the case, would the three Contributors would most likely appear to come from: Paul Tagliabue, Art Modell, George Young and an outside possibility of Art McNally?

Also, other than a token couple of old timers, the vast majority of player selections would seem to be headed to more of the modern players, who are still living. Let's hope that is not the case.
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Re: Standards and fariness

Postby JohnTurney » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:03 pm

Bdbop wrote:If that is the case, would the three Contributors would most likely appear to come from: Paul Tagliabue, Art Modell, George Young and an outside possibility of Art McNally?

Also, other than a token couple of old timers, the vast majority of player selections would seem to be headed to more of the modern players, who are still living. Let's hope that is not the case.


I don't know but that seems like how it is going. Young was always a favorite, would have been in last year but it came down to Brandt was alive and Young was dead. They went with the live guy because he was alive.

I have heard Tags got enough support (done by a voter who was counting votes)

Modell is interesting---there has been Internet talk, but really don't know. Also been "talk" for putting official in, and McNally is THE guy for that.

I think you may be right
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Re: Standards and fariness

Postby Jay Z » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:51 am

With Holmgren, Ron Wolf is already in as off the field personnel for 1996 Packers. I would rather get Leroy Butler in. That is apples and oranges, but the way I see it.
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Re: Standards and fariness

Postby Bryan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:32 am

JohnTurney wrote:If Cowher had been some kind of innovator (anything, someone tell me) or had been
the vicitim of starting with a bad team and turning it around I could see it.

Bottom line---maybe he's HOF worthy, probably is a marginal yes for me... but nowhere
near good enough to leapfrog others.


I agree that Cowher is marginal...not a terrible choice but not the best choice among the remaining coaches.

As far as 'innovation', I don't know how much Cowher had to do with it, but those 90's Steelers teams were very innovative. You had LeBeau's zoneblitz stuff, with DBs like Woodson and Lake routinely getting sacks. The Steelers teams with Neil O'Donnell were the first NFL team that I can recall regularly using 5 WR empty sets. They'd put in Kordell Stewart as the 5th WR and have O'Donnell in the shotgun. Interesting stuff. Maybe they weren't the very first team, and someone can correct me, but they were at least ahead of the curve in that regard.

Oh, and almost forgot to add this in terms of Cowher's innovation...he was the first guy to constantly scream "Let's Go! Let's Go!", which can be heard everywhere now, even from non-English speaking tennis players in every match.
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