Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Dog almighty, this is a disgrace. It's as if they purposely left off the best backlog guys or something. No Dilweg, Emerson, Wistert, Lewellen? No Pearson? No Gradishar? Words cannot express, and all that.

JohnTurney wrote:as for predictions
Slater, Wistert, Speedie, Karras, Pearson, Shell, Branch, Nobis, Branch edit: meant Carmichel, was told I put Branch twice, Dilweg,

Sabol, George Young, Tagliabue

Did not go the way I would have liked, but got a few of the head-scratchers. What we want and what we get is not the same.
Honestly thought Wistert would make it..

Stunned that Gradishar didn't make it. Disappointed that Branch was left off. Very happy about Winston Hill. Fingers crossed for Mac Speedie.

Former Seahawks HC Chuck Knox on Randy Gradishar (1983):

"He'll be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame someday"

Retro Rider wrote:Stunned that Gradishar didn't make it. Disappointed that Branch was left off. Very happy about Winston Hill. Fingers crossed for Mac Speedie.

Former Seahawks HC Chuck Knox on Randy Gradishar (1983):

"He'll be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame someday"

I remember back in the 70's you would often hear a player described "He will be in the Hall of Fame."

And not get in, or not yet.

Am seriously disappointed that Sprinkle was one of the old-timers who made it. It’s not that I don’t think that he had a case for the hall; there were some points in his favor. The trouble is that his case was debatable, whereas the early players left off were unquestionably HOF-level.

Covert is also problematic. Again, he had a case, but like Sprinkle, was borderline at best, and certainly not a better choice than any of the other players (aside from Sprinkle). He was the worst choice at OT for the ‘80’s All-Decade Team (one of a number of questionable choices for that squad); Mike Kenn, Jackie Slater, or Marvin Powell would have been stronger options to fill the last tackle slot IMO. If Covert had never made that team, I don’t think he would have even ended up as a Centennial finalist.

Seems like there was somebody on the panel with Chicago connections who had a lot of influence, which would explain both of these guys’ selections.

SixtiesFan wrote:
I remember back in the 70's you would often hear a player described "He will be in the Hall of Fame."

And not get in, or not yet.

I seem to remember George Allen saying that about Pat Fischer.

rebelx24 wrote:, but like Sprinkle, was borderline at best,

This is HOF?
1949 —1st Tm -Int. News Service
1950— 1st Tm— NY Daily News, Pro Bowl
1951— 2nd Tm— NY Daily News, UPI, Pro Bowl
1952— 2nd Tm — Associated Press, Pro Bowl
1954— 2nd Tm — Associated Press, Pro Bowl

And yes, I've seen film. He's good. Brito is better. Katcavage is better.

If all one need to be is good, and 1st team from INS and NY Daily News, a case can be made for
a hundred or more players.

His All-Decade for the 1940s---on honor was in 1949. Best case is he's All-Decade from 1945-55

Conspiracy theories only, as I am not questioning that validity of any of the honorees being a Hall of Famer.

1. Of the "early" NFL guys, Slater seemed to have the least amount of all pro honors. Did the fact that he was an African American help his cause? Most likely yes. Perhaps this is also why he was not named to more All Pro Teams? But, did this "political correctness" have an effect on the HOF vote?
2. Did choosing between Dilweg and Lewellen come down to a toss up and, since the liklihood of both getting in was probably not going to happen, did they compromise by selecting Dillon, as their token Packer (especially since he was not named to an all Decade Team)?
3. Similarly, did Carmichael negate Wistert's chances?
4. Likewise, did Karras cancel out Emerson?
5. How much did the fact that none of these selectors ever saw Dilweg, Lewellen, Emerson and Wistert play have a major effect in the voting?
6. Was Speedie selected as a token measure to Brown's fans, as well as Northwest Ohio?
7. Was Winston Hill selected as the token choice to appease AFL fans?
8. Why were the Bears the only team to get two players named?
9. Covert has only been in the Senior Pool for five years now. Is he really that overlooked yet? Likewise, Shell has only been eligible for less than 10 years and also was not a part of any of the All Decade Teams.
10. Why were the Cowboys & Steelers, who were probably the best teams of the mid 1970's-mid 1980's, when most of these selectors were probably beginning their journalistic career, the only other teams to get two individuals named?
11. Overall, it looks like the selected the following All Decade members:
1920's era: 0, as Duke Slater, was not All Decade
1930's era: 0
1940's era: Mac Speedie, Ed Sprinkle (though both overlapped into the 1950's as well
1950's era: 0, as Bobby Dillon was not All Decade
1960's era: Alex Karras
1960's era* (all AFL Team): Winston Hill
1970's era: Cliff Harris, Harold Carmichael
1980's era: Jimbo Covert, as Donnie Shell was not All Decade

Obviously seems to be a bias towards the more modern players, when all the Selectors were more familiar with the names and players.

Again, just some thoughts to ponder.

Retro Rider wrote:

SixtiesFan wrote:
I remember back in the 70's you would often hear a player described "He will be in the Hall of Fame."

And not get in, or not yet.

I seem to remember George Allen saying that about Pat Fischer.

Thanks I remember George Allen saying Pat Fischer "should be in the Hall of Fame." I think it was in a 80's NFL Films segment.

SixtiesFan wrote:

Retro Rider wrote:

SixtiesFan wrote:
I remember back in the 70's you would often hear a player described "He will be in the Hall of Fame."

And not get in, or not yet.

I seem to remember George Allen saying that about Pat Fischer.

Thanks I remember George Allen saying Pat Fischer "should be in the Hall of Fame." I think it was in a 80's NFL Films segment.

You're right, that's where I saw it:

https://youtu.be/pDlv54XtjNk