Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Great answer - I like the Albert and Sanders examples. Sanders was around 1400 at 6 yards a pop, but if you were trying to win the '47 NFL title, do you want him or Van Buren?

What's blank ink?

Black ink not blank, as in, black numbers on PFR. Leading the league in a category.

Re: Sanders vs. Van Buren, it depends. SVB lasted longer so I consider him the greater player overall, but specifically for one year I would definitely take fully healthy Sanders. Even affording some stat dip in the NFL, his unique hybrid position is basically worth two guys at once, a totally competent QB and an elite RB. Also played quality defense at the same time. Was he in single wing? Going by stats, he seems like the perfected final form of the single-wing tailback. If I'm not allowed to use Sanders as a one-man phalanx and could only choose one as a RB, probably Van Buren, because he was much better in his next best seasons than Sanders, for reliability's sake.

Spec Sanders played mostly on defense in 1950 and led the NFL in interceptions with 13 in the 12 game season.

JameisLoseston wrote:

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Great answer - I like the Albert and Sanders examples. Sanders was around 1400 at 6 yards a pop, but if you were trying to win the '47 NFL title, do you want him or Van Buren?

What's blank ink?

Black ink not blank, as in, black numbers on PFR. Leading the league in a category.

Re: Sanders vs. Van Buren, it depends. SVB lasted longer so I consider him the greater player overall, but specifically for one year I would definitely take fully healthy Sanders. Even affording some stat dip in the NFL, his unique hybrid position is basically worth two guys at once, a totally competent QB and an elite RB. Also played quality defense at the same time. Was he in single wing? Going by stats, he seems like the perfected final form of the single-wing tailback. If I'm not allowed to use Sanders as a one-man phalanx and could only choose one as a RB, probably Van Buren, because he was much better in his next best seasons than Sanders, for reliability's sake.

Got it - leading the league yeah, "blank" was just my typo.

I'm normally a big underdog proponent, but in the one game I saw of Sanders (yes he was single-wing), he didn't jump out at me like say Eddie Price of the Giants or George Taliaferro. I'm glad he got some honors in the NFL in '50, and I'm definitely impressed with his production - but if I had to do a late 40s/early 50s draft, I don't think I take him very high.

Speaking of Eddie Price - how in the world did he take 100 carries for 200 yards one year?! Just that one random godawful season, and otherwise he was very good before and after. I don't get it.

JameisLoseston wrote:Speaking of Eddie Price - how in the world did he take 100 carries for 200 yards one year?! Just that one random godawful season, and otherwise he was very good before and after. I don't get it.

Eddie Price in 1951 was only one of two players ever to lead the league in rushing yards despite having a YPC below the league average for the season in question; the other was Floyd Little in 1971.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:Speaking of Eddie Price - how in the world did he take 100 carries for 200 yards one year?! Just that one random godawful season, and otherwise he was very good before and after. I don't get it.

Eddie Price in 1951 was only one of two players ever to lead the league in rushing yards despite having a YPC below the league average for the season in question; the other was Floyd Little in 1971.

The one I'm referring to is 1953. 101 carries, 206 yards. Dude was just randomly hot garbage for one season, had 4.1 ypc the year before and the year after. Why? Injured and refused to sit?

I never noticed that '53 season - I would guess he wasn't healthy - really odd - but I don't have the answer.

I did take a look at Ken and Matt's scouting report on Sanders - they only had 3 games, but one thing I learned to check was that it did include games in his prime. One of the games was the one I saw and I did learn it was in bad field conditions, so I will keep an open mind, but for now I still see him as a notch below HOVG.

TanksAndSpartans wrote:I never noticed that '53 season - I would guess he wasn't healthy - really odd - but I don't have the answer.

I did take a look at Ken and Matt's scouting report on Sanders - they only had 3 games, but one thing I learned to check was that it did include games in his prime. One of the games was the one I saw and I did learn it was in bad field conditions, so I will keep an open mind, but for now I still see him as a notch below HOVG.

Is the consensus kinda that Sanders was "six yards and a cloud of dust" rather than a breakaway threat? Is that what's meant by his film not looking as good as some others? I'd argue it doesn't matter how you get to 6 yards per carry, but to each their own. He's been HOVG since a very early class iirc, but obviously his comeback as an elite DB contributes to that.

JameisLoseston wrote:

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Is the consensus kinda that Sanders was "six yards and a cloud of dust" rather than a breakaway threat? Is that what's meant by his film not looking as good as some others? I'd argue it doesn't matter how you get to 6 yards per carry, but to each their own. He's been HOVG since a very early class iirc, but obviously his comeback as an elite DB contributes to that.

Don't use me to represent the consensus - the opposite is probably safer! His statistics on the page don't match up with what my eyes tell me. I don't want to get into a whole AAFC thing again, but the first two backs I checked - Motley and Perry both had AAFC seasons above 6 yards per carry. What if one of them had been in the Yankees backfield and gotten the ball 200+ times?

JameisLoseston wrote:

Rupert Patrick wrote:

JameisLoseston wrote:Speaking of Eddie Price - how in the world did he take 100 carries for 200 yards one year?! Just that one random godawful season, and otherwise he was very good before and after. I don't get it.

Eddie Price in 1951 was only one of two players ever to lead the league in rushing yards despite having a YPC below the league average for the season in question; the other was Floyd Little in 1971.

The one I'm referring to is 1953. 101 carries, 206 yards. Dude was just randomly hot garbage for one season, had 4.1 ypc the year before and the year after. Why? Injured and refused to sit?

That bit of trivia about Price was something I stumbled across in research for my upcoming book; it was really the only thing I knew about Eddie Price.

Looking at Price's 1953 season gamelogs at PFR.com:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... elog/1953/

He didn't have a single game where he rushed for over three yards per carry. In the five games he did rush over 10 times, his YPC were 1,93, 1,64, 2,90, 2.56 and 2.10. It wasn't that he had a couple bad games, he didn't have a single good game. He was clearly nursing an injury and it's a wonder Steve Owen kept him out there as much as he did.

Price probably had the worst season of any running back ever with over 100 carries, but as far as seasons for a player with more than 100 rushing attempts, there is one player who has Price beat as the worst, and this performance will never be beat:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... riDa21.htm

In 1940, Heisman Trophy winner turned Eagles QB and soon to be FBI agent Davey O'Brien rushed 100 times for negative 180 yards, and this was in the days before they had the kneel-down play. I don't know if those were actual runs or sacks credited as runs.