We, at OldestLivingProFootball.com are trying to gather some more information on some players from the 1920's & 1930's. If anyone can add to the information provided at the link below, it would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.oldestlivingprofootball.com/ ... wn-players
Jim
Research Help
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OldestLivingFootball
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- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:08 pm
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Research Help
James Z
Re: Research Help
Added some minor updates for Jackson McArthur.
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OldestLivingFootball
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:08 pm
- Contact:
Re: Research Help
There have been quite a few updates and corrections to the pro-football players lists. I am not sure if anyone here is interested, but if you are, please take some time to read the additions.
http://www.oldestlivingprofootball.com/ ... ected-data
and
http://www.oldestlivingprofootball.com/ ... iscoveries
Enjoy!
http://www.oldestlivingprofootball.com/ ... ected-data
and
http://www.oldestlivingprofootball.com/ ... iscoveries
Enjoy!
James Z
Re: Research Help
Always been a useful site, keep up the good work.
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John Maxymuk
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:23 pm
Re: Research Help
Yes, often very useful site. Good job, James Z.
Re: Research Help
Can anyone help with this one?...
On 28 November 1920 against the Cardinals at Normal Park, the Decatur Staleys had a Keefe play on the line, as a substitute for RG Jerry Jones. Whilst the Chicago Tribune report of the game makes no mention of Keefe, the more detailed Decatur Review report states that "Jones was forced out of the contest" and in the Staleys substitutions it clearly list Keefe for Jones.
The only known Keefe in the APFA/NFL at this time was Emmet(t) George Keefe (1893-1965) who played at Notre Dame (1912-15) and then for the Chicago Tigers (1920), Green Bay Packers (1921), Rock Island Independents (1921-22) & Milwaukee Badgers (1922). The problem is that the Chicago Tigers played at Cubs Park on 28 November 1920 and a Keefe was in the starting lineup at LG.
It would seem somewhat unlikely that the same player would play for two different teams on the same day. Cubs Park & Normal Park were some 15 miles apart and both games appear to have been played in the daytime, so presumably the Keefe's are different people.
The Bears Honor Roll (all-time roster) first appeared in their 1952 Media Guide and a Jerry Keefe is listed as playing G in 1920. Colleges were first listed in the 1954 edition, but there is nothing listed for Jerry Keefe until 1973, when he is first marked as deceased and Notre Dame appears.
Notre Dame's all-time roster has no Jerry Keefe listed and prior to 1920, only LHB Walter Keefe (1904 & 06) & LE Emmett Keefe (1912-15) appear. Looking through the 1919 & 1920 Notre Dame Football Reviews, there is no Keefe listed on the varsity, freshman or inter-hall teams. It's possible that he was there earlier and did not letter.
The Decatur Review buildup to the Staleys-Cardinals game does mention that several Staleys were in bad shape and that Halas would have "one or two Notre Dame men sitting on the bench to be prepared for any emergency". The only known Notre Dame players on the Staleys squad were Jerry Jones & George Trafton and they both started on the line that day. The next Notre Dame players to play for the Staleys/Bears were Hunk Anderson, Hec Garvey & Ojay Larson, who had all been kicked off the Notre Dame team for playing in the Green Bay-Racine game in 1921. Notre Dame finished their season on 25 November 1920 at Michigan State, so did any of these play for the Staleys in 1920 under an assumed name? Assistant football coach at Notre Dame in 1920 was Walter Halas, so insert conspiracy theories here.
The only problem with an assumed name is that in the 1940s and 1950s, cover artwork on some of the Bears home programs is credited to a Jerry Keefe. All sorts of errors, oddities and other mistakes appear on the Bears all-time roster, so I suppose when originally compiling the list they may have mixed up their program artist, Jerry Keefe, with the "Keefe" who played in 1920. Alternatively, did he actually play? There are a number of possible Jerry Keefe's and variants on the census records who would be about the right age, but nothing definitive.
On 28 November 1920 against the Cardinals at Normal Park, the Decatur Staleys had a Keefe play on the line, as a substitute for RG Jerry Jones. Whilst the Chicago Tribune report of the game makes no mention of Keefe, the more detailed Decatur Review report states that "Jones was forced out of the contest" and in the Staleys substitutions it clearly list Keefe for Jones.
The only known Keefe in the APFA/NFL at this time was Emmet(t) George Keefe (1893-1965) who played at Notre Dame (1912-15) and then for the Chicago Tigers (1920), Green Bay Packers (1921), Rock Island Independents (1921-22) & Milwaukee Badgers (1922). The problem is that the Chicago Tigers played at Cubs Park on 28 November 1920 and a Keefe was in the starting lineup at LG.
It would seem somewhat unlikely that the same player would play for two different teams on the same day. Cubs Park & Normal Park were some 15 miles apart and both games appear to have been played in the daytime, so presumably the Keefe's are different people.
The Bears Honor Roll (all-time roster) first appeared in their 1952 Media Guide and a Jerry Keefe is listed as playing G in 1920. Colleges were first listed in the 1954 edition, but there is nothing listed for Jerry Keefe until 1973, when he is first marked as deceased and Notre Dame appears.
Notre Dame's all-time roster has no Jerry Keefe listed and prior to 1920, only LHB Walter Keefe (1904 & 06) & LE Emmett Keefe (1912-15) appear. Looking through the 1919 & 1920 Notre Dame Football Reviews, there is no Keefe listed on the varsity, freshman or inter-hall teams. It's possible that he was there earlier and did not letter.
The Decatur Review buildup to the Staleys-Cardinals game does mention that several Staleys were in bad shape and that Halas would have "one or two Notre Dame men sitting on the bench to be prepared for any emergency". The only known Notre Dame players on the Staleys squad were Jerry Jones & George Trafton and they both started on the line that day. The next Notre Dame players to play for the Staleys/Bears were Hunk Anderson, Hec Garvey & Ojay Larson, who had all been kicked off the Notre Dame team for playing in the Green Bay-Racine game in 1921. Notre Dame finished their season on 25 November 1920 at Michigan State, so did any of these play for the Staleys in 1920 under an assumed name? Assistant football coach at Notre Dame in 1920 was Walter Halas, so insert conspiracy theories here.
The only problem with an assumed name is that in the 1940s and 1950s, cover artwork on some of the Bears home programs is credited to a Jerry Keefe. All sorts of errors, oddities and other mistakes appear on the Bears all-time roster, so I suppose when originally compiling the list they may have mixed up their program artist, Jerry Keefe, with the "Keefe" who played in 1920. Alternatively, did he actually play? There are a number of possible Jerry Keefe's and variants on the census records who would be about the right age, but nothing definitive.
Re: Research Help
Don't know about Jerry Keefe the football player, but a Jerry Keefe was one of the stage managers for a drama production put on for the commencment ceremonies of the 1929 graduating class of Chicago's Lake View High School.
Probably not the same guy.
Probably not the same guy.