Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Jay Z » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:57 am

JohnH19 wrote:
Jay Z wrote: Steve Grogan was also loved for reasons I don't really understand either.


Grogan was loved because he was a leader and a battler. A Joe Kapp type.


Too many picks, and he didn't win in the playoffs.

I am not arguing the perception, just my perception as a distant observer. He came in '75 as a rookie, Plunkett hurt, seemed like David Whitehurst to Plunkett's Lynn Dickey. The team regresses, goes 3-11, but they trade Plunkett anyway, which was certainly weird on the surface. Then they go 11-3, which certainly helped Grogan. Plays decently in the playoff game at least, had the attempted draw off fiasco, but a decent performance considering the emphasis the team had on the run anyway.

By 1978 his stats weren't progressing despite better receivers, they lose their playoff game in an upset and Grogan plays poorly. That's the part I don't get, how he escaped blame for all of the post 1976 years. Do they win in the playoffs in 1978 with a healthy Plunkett and no other distractions? Don't know, 1978 Steelers were a lot better than the 1980 Raiders I think. Maybe 1976 was the Patriots' best chance no matter what.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:31 pm

Jay Z wrote:
JohnH19 wrote:
Jay Z wrote: Steve Grogan was also loved for reasons I don't really understand either.


Grogan was loved because he was a leader and a battler. A Joe Kapp type.


Too many picks, and he didn't win in the playoffs.

I am not arguing the perception, just my perception as a distant observer. He came in '75 as a rookie, Plunkett hurt, seemed like David Whitehurst to Plunkett's Lynn Dickey. The team regresses, goes 3-11, but they trade Plunkett anyway, which was certainly weird on the surface. Then they go 11-3, which certainly helped Grogan. Plays decently in the playoff game at least, had the attempted draw off fiasco, but a decent performance considering the emphasis the team had on the run anyway.

By 1978 his stats weren't progressing despite better receivers, they lose their playoff game in an upset and Grogan plays poorly. That's the part I don't get, how he escaped blame for all of the post 1976 years. Do they win in the playoffs in 1978 with a healthy Plunkett and no other distractions? Don't know, 1978 Steelers were a lot better than the 1980 Raiders I think. Maybe 1976 was the Patriots' best chance no matter what.


Plunkett was traded because he didn't want to be there and Fairbanks had moved on. Plunkett still had plenty of value, considering what the Niners gave up and what the Rams were offering.

Glossing over the reason for the Pats being upset in 78--Fairbanks essentially walking out on them right before the playoffs shattered the team's momentum. They still would have lost to the Steelers that year, but trying to win a playoff game under normal circumstances is tough enough; throw in the fact that the coach no longer wants to be there and you have a dead team walking.

In 1979-80, the Pats should have won the division both seasons, but as a head coach, Ron Erhardt was a hell of an OC.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Bryan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:51 pm

BD Sullivan wrote:Plunkett was traded because he didn't want to be there and Fairbanks had moved on. Plunkett still had plenty of value, considering what the Niners gave up and what the Rams were offering.


Fairbanks wanted to keep Plunkett, but Plunkett's salary demands were too high. Plunkett would have been on an option year in 1976, and he had already threatened to sit out the season if he wasn't traded or if his salary demands weren't met.

Plunkett was pretty terrible in 1975, and he was injured twice during the season. I've read that the only team other than the Niners with any interest in obtaining Plunkett was the Giants, and even then there wasn't any actual trade offer. The Niners deal for Plunkett was one of the worst in NFL history...3 1st rounders & a 2nd rounder for a QB who would be waived 2 years later. It was almost as bad as the Packers-John Hadl trade. At least Hadl was coming off a big 1973 season. I've never heard of the Rams and Broncos offering up for Plunkett. Rosenbloom criticized the Niners for making the trade, too.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby 7DnBrnc53 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:40 pm

In a November 1973 issue of The Sporting News, there were some rumored trades for Plunkett (both to teams that he would eventually end up with):

1. Plunkett to the Raiders for either Lamonica or Stabler (probably Stabler), LB Dan Conners, DE Tony Cline, and a draft choice.
2. Plunkett to San Fran for QB Steve Spurrier, CB Bruce Taylor, a DE, and a 1974 first-rounder (the one that SF got from NE for TE Bob Windsor).

If Plunkett went to the Raiders, it's possible that he would have ended up in Houston in 1980 for Dan Pastorini. If he went to SF, he still may ended up a Raider depending on how he did in 1974 (where the 49ers had a chance to contend with better QB play) and 76. Joe Thomas still probably ends up there, and if Plunkett didn't have success, he still would have been gone.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:02 pm

Bryan wrote:
BD Sullivan wrote:Plunkett was traded because he didn't want to be there and Fairbanks had moved on. Plunkett still had plenty of value, considering what the Niners gave up and what the Rams were offering.


Fairbanks wanted to keep Plunkett, but Plunkett's salary demands were too high. Plunkett would have been on an option year in 1976, and he had already threatened to sit out the season if he wasn't traded or if his salary demands weren't met.

Plunkett was pretty terrible in 1975, and he was injured twice during the season. I've read that the only team other than the Niners with any interest in obtaining Plunkett was the Giants, and even then there wasn't any actual trade offer. The Niners deal for Plunkett was one of the worst in NFL history...3 1st rounders & a 2nd rounder for a QB who would be waived 2 years later. It was almost as bad as the Packers-John Hadl trade. At least Hadl was coming off a big 1973 season. I've never heard of the Rams and Broncos offering up for Plunkett. Rosenbloom criticized the Niners for making the trade, too.


The Raiders were also in the mix, although i have no clue what they were offering. Ralston denied one report that Denver had offered Otis Armstrong, Barney Chavous and a #1.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Bryan » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:39 pm

BD Sullivan wrote:The Raiders were also in the mix, although i have no clue what they were offering. Ralston denied one report that Denver had offered Otis Armstrong, Barney Chavous and a #1.


Interesting. Thanks for sharing those articles.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby vikingsfan1963 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:12 pm

If I'm not mistaken didn't the 49ers start Plunkett's first season there with 5 or 6 wins in 7 games and then plummeted while losing several close games?
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:06 pm

vikingsfan1963 wrote:If I'm not mistaken didn't the 49ers start Plunkett's first season there with 5 or 6 wins in 7 games and then plummeted while losing several close games?


Started 6-1, with their pass rush shredding the Rams in a MNF game. That 16-0 win was part of a four-game stretch in which the Niners allowed only nine points. They finished 8-6, losing three straight games by a total of 11 points.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby vikingsfan1963 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:13 pm

One of those last two wins was a Monday Nighter over my Vikings. Plunkett got a DNP (I guess he was injured) and Scott Bull led them to victory while throwing like 5 passes! I believe this game was on YouTube at one time. I watched most of it there! :(
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby SixtiesFan » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:03 pm

vikingsfan1963 wrote:One of those last two wins was a Monday Nighter over my Vikings. Plunkett got a DNP (I guess he was injured) and Scott Bull led them to victory while throwing like 5 passes! I believe this game was on YouTube at one time. I watched most of it there! :(


My recollection is the 49ers started Scott Bull to see what he could do. The 49ers had lost four straight in which Jim Plunkett had played poorly. I don't think Plunkett was injured.
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