Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:05 pm

SixtiesFan wrote:
vikingsfan1963 wrote:One of those last two wins was a Monday Nighter over my Vikings. Plunkett got a DNP (I guess he was injured) and Scott Bull led them to victory while throwing like 5 passes! I believe this game was on YouTube at one time. I watched most of it there! :(


My recollection is the 49ers started Scott Bull to see what he could do. The 49ers had lost four straight in which Jim Plunkett had played poorly. I don't think Plunkett was injured.


It appears Plunkett was hurt:
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Bryan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:11 am

Jay Z wrote:Too many picks, and he didn't win in the playoffs.

I am not arguing the perception, just my perception as a distant observer. He came in '75 as a rookie, Plunkett hurt, seemed like David Whitehurst to Plunkett's Lynn Dickey. The team regresses, goes 3-11, but they trade Plunkett anyway, which was certainly weird on the surface. Then they go 11-3, which certainly helped Grogan. Plays decently in the playoff game at least, had the attempted draw off fiasco, but a decent performance considering the emphasis the team had on the run anyway.

By 1978 his stats weren't progressing despite better receivers, they lose their playoff game in an upset and Grogan plays poorly. That's the part I don't get, how he escaped blame for all of the post 1976 years. Do they win in the playoffs in 1978 with a healthy Plunkett and no other distractions? Don't know, 1978 Steelers were a lot better than the 1980 Raiders I think. Maybe 1976 was the Patriots' best chance no matter what.


Grogan had a bit of the "Eric Hipple Effect", where his initial unexpected success kind of overshadowed his actual shortcomings. Grogan was a 3rd string rookie QB in 75, and his first appearance was coming off the bench and leading the Patriots to a victory over the Niners. A couple weeks later, Grogan had a big game in a win over San Diego. Even when Grogan's play tailed off at the end of 1975, people didn't seem to be bothered. As you said, Grogan never really progressed. He was reckless, threw into coverage, and turned the ball over too much. He was like that for the entire time he was the regular starter.

One thing I remember about Grogan was, after he was replaced by Tony Eason, he became a great backup QB. He couldn't run, he didn't throw deep as often, but he was very smart. It was the complete opposite of when he was a starter. As for his bad 1978 playoff game, Grogan had gotten injured in the last regular season game against Miami. The Patriots said that if they had to play the WC game, they would have started Tom Owen at QB, but they started Grogan in the divisional game due to having an extra week off. That might not have been the wisest decision in retrospect.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:34 pm

Bryan wrote:Grogan had a bit of the "Eric Hipple Effect", where his initial unexpected success kind of overshadowed his actual shortcomings. Grogan was a 3rd string rookie QB in 75, and his first appearance was coming off the bench and leading the Patriots to a victory over the Niners. A couple weeks later, Grogan had a big game in a win over San Diego. Even when Grogan's play tailed off at the end of 1975, people didn't seem to be bothered. As you said, Grogan never really progressed. He was reckless, threw into coverage, and turned the ball over too much. He was like that for the entire time he was the regular starter.

One thing I remember about Grogan was, after he was replaced by Tony Eason, he became a great backup QB. He couldn't run, he didn't throw deep as often, but he was very smart. It was the complete opposite of when he was a starter. As for his bad 1978 playoff game, Grogan had gotten injured in the last regular season game against Miami. The Patriots said that if they had to play the WC game, they would have started Tom Owen at QB, but they started Grogan in the divisional game due to having an extra week off. That might not have been the wisest decision in retrospect.


Not sure why anyone should have gotten excited about Grogan beating the 5-9 49ers and 2-12 Chargers. The only winning team that the Niners beat that year was the Rams, who were half-assing it at home after the 42-3 MNF blowout win in Philly and actually lost to the Niners by a point in the final minute--thanks to a 54-yard FG. The Chargers were an 0-8 trainwreck when the Pats faced them. Like I had mentioned earlier, he wasn't Plunkett, which is why the fans wanted him.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Bryan » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:56 am

BD Sullivan wrote:Not sure why anyone should have gotten excited about Grogan beating the 5-9 49ers and 2-12 Chargers.


If my team had lost 10 of their last 12 games, and then the 3rd string rookie QB comes in and leads the team to wins in 2 of their next 3 games, I'd be excited regardless of who the opponents were. I remember being 'excited' when Anthony Dilweg won a game for the Packers, so perhaps it takes less to excite me.
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