Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby vikingsfan1963 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:23 pm

All started at least half of their teams' games and were age 26 or younger:
Bert Jones, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Joe Ferguson, Steve Grogan, Steve Bartkowski.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:22 pm

Jones and Pastorini were finally playing for good teams, while Manning never got that opportunity.

Ferguson's main role had been perfecting the handoff to OJ, but put it together in 75. Unfortunately, he missed the last half of 76 with a back fracture. The following year, Simpson got hurt and the team collapsed, with Ferguson having a sketchy year--2,800 yards passing, but 12 TD's and 24 picks.

With Grogan, there was no pressure on him, since the Pats were terrible and he wasn't Plunkett who was the subject of unrelenting fan abuse--while playing with an injured shoulder.

Same with Bartkowski, who was playing for a team that was 3-11 the previous year. He was a rookie QB (albeit top overall pick), with Kim McQuilken and Pat Sullivan behind him, so it's not as if he was getting a stiff challenge.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby TanksAndSpartans » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:03 am

This is a tangent, but I didn't know Bert was Dub Jones' ('50s Browns) son until recently. NFL Films did a nice 4 or 5 minute piece in it.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Jay Z » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:14 am

They were not starters in 1975, but Jim Plunkett and Lynn Dickey came out the same year as Manning and Pastorini.

The Plunkett situation was weird. He and Fairbanks had a falling out that couldn't be repaired. A lot of those college coaches seemed to have problems relating to player relations. Coryell and Vermeil not so much. Steve Grogan was also loved for reasons I don't really understand either.

IMO Dickey always was a better QB than Pastorini, but Pastorini was just good enough not to get beat out.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Bryan » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:28 am

Jay Z wrote:They were not starters in 1975, but Jim Plunkett and Lynn Dickey came out the same year as Manning and Pastorini.

The Plunkett situation was weird. He and Fairbanks had a falling out that couldn't be repaired. A lot of those college coaches seemed to have problems relating to player relations. Coryell and Vermeil not so much. Steve Grogan was also loved for reasons I don't really understand either.

IMO Dickey always was a better QB than Pastorini, but Pastorini was just good enough not to get beat out.


Fairbanks wasn't close to his players, and Plunkett needed encouragement from his HC like he had at Stanford with John Ralston. The story was that Fairbanks and Plunkett never spoke to each other, and Fairbanks thought that was normal and Plunkett thought that was a problem.

I think Dickey's problem was his lack of durability, especially behind Houston's O-line. I thought he was a significantly better passer than Pastorini, but I guess Pastorini could take the physical punishment. Dickey, Bartkowski & Warren Moon threw the prettiest passes I've ever seen, but Dickey always had some type of injury when he started with GB. That said, the bad analogy I'll draw is that Dickey was like Sonny Jurgensen and Pastorini was like Billy Kilmer...if you were a defense, which one would you rather face? I agree that Dickey never really was able to get a run as the starting QB in Houston, which is odd.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby Teo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:52 pm

Bryan wrote:Dickey, Bartkowski & Warren Moon threw the prettiest passes I've ever seen, but Dickey always had some type of injury when he started with GB.


I completely agree. My favorite passer of them all was Bartkowski.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby SixtiesFan » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:21 am

Jay Z wrote:They were not starters in 1975, but Jim Plunkett and Lynn Dickey came out the same year as Manning and Pastorini.

The Plunkett situation was weird. He and Fairbanks had a falling out that couldn't be repaired. A lot of those college coaches seemed to have problems relating to player relations. Coryell and Vermeil not so much. Steve Grogan was also loved for reasons I don't really understand either.

IMO Dickey always was a better QB than Pastorini, but Pastorini was just good enough not to get beat out.


I remember Lynn Dickey supposedly had beaten out Pastorini for the starting job in the 1972 preseason but broke his hip in the fourth preseason game and missed the rest of the year.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby JohnH19 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:59 pm

Jay Z wrote: Steve Grogan was also loved for reasons I don't really understand either.


Grogan was loved because he was a leader and a battler. A Joe Kapp type.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby JohnH19 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:02 am

SixtiesFan wrote:I remember Lynn Dickey supposedly had beaten out Pastorini for the starting job in the 1972 preseason but broke his hip in the fourth preseason game and missed the rest of the year.


I remember ABC cameras showing Dickey in a wheel chair and Howard Cosell commenting on his horrible injury during the infamous "We're number 1" MNF game against the Raiders.
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Re: Thoughts on these "Up and Coming" QBs from 1975

Postby BD Sullivan » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:33 pm

The college coaches probably didn't connect with players because they were likely used to having total control of players, with some of them the rah-rah types that didn;t cut it at the pro level.

Ralston was coaching at Denver when Plunkett was on the downside with the Pats. The Broncos were one of the teams trying to pick him up, but most likely didn't have enough assets to get him. One of those teams was the Rams, who reportedly offered Ron Jaworski and Larry Brooks.
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