'84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

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Bryan
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Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by Bryan »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:I understand you are intent on denigrating the '84 - '85 Dolphins for whatever reason but saying the Patriots gameplan backfired in the Super Bowl gave me a laugh. Was there a game where one team was more overmatched than that in the entire decade?
I said the 85 Browns/Patriots were worse matchups for Miami than the 84 Seahawks/Steelers because the Browns and Patriots had much stronger running games and Miami's defense was their Achilles heel. I didn't think that was even a debatable issue, I said it more of a 'case in point'. I'm not sure what you are trying to argue...that Miami was 'unlucky' to give up 500+ rushing yards in consecutive playoff games?

I'm sorry that my actual football thought on Rod Rust overplaying singular aspects in the opposing offense made you laugh. The Patriots keyed extensively on Payton...the game film exists...the box score exists. Payton had 22 carries for 61 yards with a long gain of 7. McMahon averaged over 20 yards per completion. Your bizarre comment about me "thinking the brilliant Patriots game planning gave the Bears a better Super Bowl than Miami would have" is pure whack-a-doodle nonsense. I said nothing of the sort.

Perhaps the Patriots were just unlucky in Super XX? They had a turnover differential of -4 that game...the other 3 postseason games for New England in 1985 saw them with a turnover differential of +12... :roll:
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TanksAndSpartans
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Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

You're selectively bringing up some of your prior points and not others. You said anyone who watched the '85 AFC championship game would have concluded that New England was the better team and I disagree. You said the Patriots gameplan was brilliant in that game, but it backfired in the Super Bowl. I countered those points. You pull out the name Rod Rust, but didn't know who the Dolphins D coordinator was. What aspect of Rust's game planning was so brilliant? I noticed the Pats DBs covered Duper and Clayton well, but I don't attribute that to game planning. I don't know what the Pats gameplan was against the Bears - there is a play I've seen in an NFL Films video a few times where the whole Pats defense bites on a fake to Payton in that game. Maybe the Pats D keyed on him all game or maybe they were just fooled by that fake, I don't know and my point is it wouldn't have mattered - they were completely over matched. You're comparing apples to oranges by implying Miami's bad game in the AFC championship was comparable to the Patriots SB debacle. Miami split with the Patriots in the regular season. They weren't as good as they were in '84 or maybe their offense simply wasn't as novel after the 49ers laid out a blue print how to beat them, but they had enough to win especially against AFC teams. With a weak defense, giving the other team a short field multiple times and falling behind was a bad formula. The Pats still had to execute and they did and deserved to win the game, I'm not arguing that. The Bears on the other hand had a great defense that season, they were getting turnovers against everyone. The Super Bowl and AFC Championship aren't comparable in my opinion - I'm arguing that if Miami doesn't uncharacteristically turn the ball over that often, they may give up the same number of rushing yards or even more, but they beat the Pats. That's not the case with the Bears/Patriots - play that game 10 times with 10 different gamelans and the outcome is the same every time. You mentioned the Pats were -4 in turnovers that game, but did they also drop an easy TD pass and still remain within 10 with the ball in the fourth quarter?
Bryan wrote:Your bizarre comment about me "thinking the brilliant Patriots game planning gave the Bears a better Super Bowl than Miami would have" is pure whack-a-doodle nonsense.
You call it bizarre, I call it inference. You said NE was the better team, so I concluded that you must think they would have given the Bears a better game. Should I have concluded that even though you think NE was the better team, you also think Miami would have given the Bears a better Super Bowl? Then what are we even arguing about?

You can call me "wacky" or whatever and add an eye roll emoji and think that wins you the debate, but I disagree on that as well. Since you aren't understanding what I'm saying, I'll say it one more time. Miami was unbalanced on offense, weak against the run on defense, and did nothing to correct either which caught up with them, but they still would have played in two Super Bowls had it not been for an uncharacteristically sloppy game in which turnovers resulted in short fields for the opposition and they seemed to shoot themselves in the foot too often. A dropped TD pass on a drive that resulted in 0 points, a fumbled QB exchange, a fumble on the opening kickoff of the second half by a player who I would have pulled after fumbling an early kickoff, and the odd use of a 2nd/3rd string fumble prone back at the key moment of the game.
Last edited by TanksAndSpartans on Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bryan
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Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by Bryan »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:You call it bizarre, I call it inference. You said NE was the better team, so I concluded that you must think they would have given the Bears a better game. Should I have concluded that even though you think NE was the better team, you also think Miami would have given the Bears a better Super Bowl? Then what are we even arguing about?
Not sure what to say at this point. Since you apparently are just here to nitpick, I actually said "I'm not sure how anyone could have watched the 1985 AFC Championship game and thought the Patriots were 'lucky' or that the better team didn't win."

My whole point, for the umpteenth time, was "the 85 Browns/Patriots were worse matchups for Miami than the 84 Seahawks/Steelers because the Browns and Patriots had much stronger running games and Miami's defense was their Achilles heel."

I was simply talking about how certain teams are bad matchups against other teams in the postseason. I'm not saying the 1985 Browns were better than the 1984 Seahawks. The 85 Dolphins had better shot of beating the 85 Bears in that Super Bowl because Marino's quick release posed a much bigger problem to the Bears defense than New England's power running game.

Tapping out of this thread for good now. This was a losing argument on my part.
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TanksAndSpartans
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Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

OK you win - I'm just here to nitpick. Your point was on the matchups even though you make entire posts where you quote me without mentioning them.
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Bryan
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Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by Bryan »

TanksAndSpartans wrote:OK you win - I'm just here to nitpick. Your point was on the matchups even though you make entire posts where you quote me without mentioning them.
Perhaps I was a bad matchup for you? No hard feelings. I usually enjoy your postings.
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TanksAndSpartans
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Re: '84, Week #11: Eagles 23, Dolphins 24

Post by TanksAndSpartans »

Thanks, I appreciate it. I feel like I mostly wind up in either threads where things get really adversarial or ones that don’t get many posts. My very first post here (technically not here, but the old board) was on the Sneakers game and it pretty much went south to the point I didn’t post again for a few years - I think I have a thicker skin now. I’ll probably try to stay away from 80s Dolphins topics though - I did have one about the 3 deaths, but I think I’ll save it for a few years :)
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