1967 Blues for the Browns

Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

Post by Saban1 »

I will add that in 1966, Cleveland played 7 games with teams with winning records. In 1967, Cleveland played 3 games with teams with winning records. The Browns lost to Green Bay 21 to 20 in 1966. Cleveland lost to the Packers 55 to 7 in 1967. Both games are the same in the standings, one loss.

In the 1966 Philadelphia game, Cleveland was basically a dead team in that game. When the Browns lost to Dallas on Thanksgiving, they knew that they would not repeat as champions in the east. They did not play well in their previous game to the Eagles game and almost lost to the 1-12-1 Giants as they sleepwalked through most of the game before coming back to win in the 4th quarter.

I think that Art Modell made a big mistake by agreeing to play in Dallas on Thanksgiving day, giving them only three days to prepare for the Cowboys' multiple offense. The Browns lost to Dallas that day for the first time since 1962. There were 7 wins for Cleveland over Dallas between their loss in 1962 and their 1966 loss on Thanksgiving. I believe that the Browns would have had a better chance to beat the Cowboys in 1966 if they played them in Dallas on the following Sunday after Thanksgiving day.

Another thing that hurt Cleveland in 1966 was being the only team in the Eastern Conference to play champion Green Bay.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

Post by Saban1 »

BD Sullivan wrote:in both 1966 and '67, the Browns went 9-5. Those 10 losses were almost always because they died in the second half.

In 1966, they were outscored 66-24 in the second half of their losses. The only game in which they "won" the second half was the second-last game at Philly, outscoing the Eagles, 14-6. Of course, the Eagles likely let their foot off the gas a little since they led 27-7 at the break.

In 1967, they were outscored 76-38 in the second half of their losses. It probably could have been worse, but in the GB game, they were losing 45-7 at the half.

In 1966 they lost both to Green Bay and the Cardinals by being outscored in the 2nd half. Not unusual in the Green Bay game as the Packers often played better in the 2nd half. Cleveland was leading 14 to 0 in that Green Bay game.

In their 16 to 6 loss to the Steelers in 1966, center John Morrow suffered a broken leg sometime during the game and Frank Ryan was sacked a bunch of times. Don't know if any of the sacks were a result of Morrow's injury, but it couldn't have helped.

They lost the Thanksgiving game to Dallas as they might have run out of gas after only 3 days between games and traveling to Dallas.

Cleveland was a dead team in the Eagles loss being that they were out of contention in the east. Same thing in their previous game with the Giants which they almost lost despite the Giants being one of the worst defensive teams in NFL history.

I have already listed many of the problems with the 1967 Browns team. The 1966 Cleveland team was much better than the 1967 Browns team.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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What a difference a year makes. In 1966, the Cleveland Browns were one of the best teams in football. The New York Giants were the worst team in major league football and possibly in pro football history setting a record for allowing the most points (501) in a season in NFL history and losing by scores of 52 to 7, 55 to 14, and 72 to 41 and also being the first team to lose to the first year Atlanta Falcons, who were arguably the most inept expansion team in league history.

In 1967, the Giants improved a lot, mostly due to the acquisition of quarterback Fran Tarkenton, who was one of the best quarterbacks of his time and maybe all time. Also helping were getting new players like MLB Vince Costello,DT Bob Lurtsema, rookies LB Ken Avery, Scott Eaton, and good play from veterans Homer Jones, Joe Morrison, Ernie Koy, Spider Lockhart, Jim Katcavage, and Henry Carr.

The Cleveland Browns went the other way in 1967 and declined so much that you could probably make a case that the improved Giants were about as good as the Browns that year despite having a defense that still was not very good. Let's compare the two teams against common opponents:

Cleveland has an edge against Pittsburgh winning 21 to 10 and 34 to 14 whereas the Giants beat the Steelers 27 to 24 and 28 to 20. With New Orleans it was the Browns winning 42 to 7 and Giants winning 27 to 21. Cleveland beat Chicago 24 to 0 and the Giants lost to Chicago 34 to 7. Big edge to Cleveland in those games.

The Giants beat St. Louis 37 to 14 and 37 to 20 whereas the Browns beat the Cards by identical scores of 20 to 16 in both games. New York beat Philadelphia 44 to 7 and Cleveland lost to the Eagles 28 to 24 in a throwaway game with their division clinched. Champion Green Bay beat the Giants 48 to 21 and beat Cleveland 55 to 7. Big edge to the Giants there.

The two games that actually won the Century Division over the Giants were the Browns beating the Vikings 14 to 10 and the Vikings beating the Giants 27 to 24, and Cleveland beating the Redskins 42 to 37 and the Redskins beating New York 38 to 34. All four of those game could have gone either way with luck being a factor in at least 3 of them, but those were the games that ended up deciding the division race.

Cleveland lost to Detroit 31 to 14 and the Giants lost to Detroit 30 to 7 as the Giants were essentially a dead team after being eliminated from playoff contention the week before. Cleveland lost to Dallas in the opener 21 to 14 and New York lost to Dallas 38 to 24. Sound like an edge for the Browns here except that Cleveland lost to Dallas in the playoffs 52 to 14.

If you count in the playoff game with Dallas, then Cleveland scored 348 points in 1967 while allowing 349 points and the Giants scored 369 points and allowed 379 points. Not really a great difference in the quality of play by both teams.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

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Saban wrote:What a difference a year makes. In 1966, the Cleveland Browns were one of the best teams in football. The New York Giants were the worst team in major league football and possibly in pro football history setting a record for allowing the most points (501) in a season in NFL history and losing by scores of 52 to 7, 55 to 14, and 72 to 41 and also being the first team to lose to the first year Atlanta Falcons, who were arguably the most inept expansion team in league history.

In 1967, the Giants improved a lot, mostly due to the acquisition of quarterback Fran Tarkenton, who was one of the best quarterbacks of his time and maybe all time. Also helping were getting new players like MLB Vince Costello,DT Bob Lurtsema, rookies LB Ken Avery, Scott Eaton, and good play from veterans Homer Jones, Joe Morrison, Ernie Koy, Spider Lockhart, Jim Katcavage, and Henry Carr.

The Cleveland Browns went the other way in 1967 and declined so much that you could probably make a case that the improved Giants were about as good as the Browns that year despite having a defense that still was not very good. Let's compare the two teams against common opponents:

Cleveland has an edge against Pittsburgh winning 21 to 10 and 34 to 14 whereas the Giants beat the Steelers 27 to 24 and 28 to 20. With New Orleans it was the Browns winning 42 to 7 and Giants winning 27 to 21. Cleveland beat Chicago 24 to 0 and the Giants lost to Chicago 34 to 7. Big edge to Cleveland in those games.

The Giants beat St. Louis 37 to 14 and 37 to 20 whereas the Browns beat the Cards by identical scores of 20 to 16 in both games. New York beat Philadelphia 44 to 7 and Cleveland lost to the Eagles 28 to 24 in a throwaway game with their division clinched. Champion Green Bay beat the Giants 48 to 21 and beat Cleveland 55 to 7. Big edge to the Giants there.

The two games that actually won the Century Division over the Giants were the Browns beating the Vikings 14 to 10 and the Vikings beating the Giants 27 to 24, and Cleveland beating the Redskins 42 to 37 and the Redskins beating New York 38 to 34. All four of those game could have gone either way with luck being a factor in at least 3 of them, but those were the games that ended up deciding the division race.

Cleveland lost to Detroit 31 to 14 and the Giants lost to Detroit 30 to 7 as the Giants were essentially a dead team after being eliminated from playoff contention the week before. Cleveland lost to Dallas in the opener 21 to 14 and New York lost to Dallas 38 to 24. Sound like an edge for the Browns here except that Cleveland lost to Dallas in the playoffs 52 to 14.

If you count in the playoff game with Dallas, then Cleveland scored 348 points in 1967 while allowing 349 points and the Giants scored 369 points and allowed 379 points. Not really a great difference in the quality of play by both teams.

On the other hand:

Much was made by some of the New York media abut the Giants' 44 to 7 shellacking of the Philadelphia Eagles. Frank Gifford even said that defensive players like Swain, Lockhart, and Eaton were becoming household names among Giants fans like Tarkenton and Jones (Homer) due to their defense getting so good now evidenced by giving up only 7 points to the Eagles. Frank was often a little over the top with his praise of the Giants teams.

I believe that the Philadelphia Eagles were a dead team going into their 1967 Giants game, making them an easy mark for the Giants or just about anyone else. The Eagles were 5 and 5 going into that game and the Dallas Cowboys were 8 and 3 having just trounced the Cardinals on Thanksgiving which was three days before the Eagles game with the Giants. The Eagles had little chance of beating out the Cowboys in the Capitol Division, but the Cards figured to be maybe a final hope of giving Philadelphia even a small chance at the division title. The Cards loss was probably like a punch in the stomach just before their Giants game.

The Giants also beat a dead team in the Cardinals in the season final game at home, 37 to 14, as the Cards had been eliminated from playoff contention the previous week. The Giants seemed to have a hex of some kind over the Cardinals throughout much of the 60's, but I believe that St. Louis was an easy mark in that game.

To be fair about it, the Giants were a dead team in their game against Detroit after just having been eliminated from the playoffs the week before and Tarkenton had one of his worst career games against the Lions.

So, the Giants were a dead team in one of their games, but played two dead teams near the end of the 1967 season. So, the advantages outweighed the disadvantages 2 to 1 in that respect (playing dead teams as opposed to being the dead team) for the Giants in 1967.
Saban1
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Re: 1967 Blues for the Browns

Post by Saban1 »

It might have been Jack Whitaker instead of Frank Gifford who remarked about Swain, Lockhart, and Eaton becoming household words in the film of the 1967 Giants-Eagles game, won by New York 44 to 7. Swain was traded to the Detroit Lions after the 1967 season.

Philadelphia may have been a dead team in the Giants game that year, but they really were not a very good team in 1967 anyway, whether they were dead or alive. They had the second worst defense in 1967 giving up 409 points that year. Only the second year Atlanta Falcons gave up more (422 points I think). Third worst was a tie between the Giants and the expansion New Orleans Saints in their first season at 379 points.

The Eagles also lost 48 to 14 to the Cardinals in their sixth game when they were still alive in the Capitol Division race.
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